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just curious what would be your ideal CR-Z in terms of performance ie: FE, handling, power, etc...


for me i think the car handles well enough for daily driving and even some spirited runs but i'd add some adjustable coilovers and wire the adjustments into the 3-modes so when i press Sport they stiffen up and when i press Eco/Normal they get super soft and cushiony... also adding a Turbo would be the path i would choose for adding both power and efficiency...

i could see easily it with a conservative tune around 190hp/???tq, revving to at least 7500 and getting at least 33mpg in Sport... while Normal would return to around 140hp/???tq and around 41mpg... and Eco would return to 125hp/???tq and around 50mpg... these are combined mpg figures and purely for guessing... i'm pretty sure given effective tuning these results are achievable and i can't wait to find out :woowoo:
 

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my ideal cr-Z would have over 200w/tq in sport mode. i want it to do 0-60 in under a modest 7 seconds. i dont care what it does after 75 honestly besides get good gas milage. im someone who takes curves fast and accelerates right up to 4 over the speed limit and sets his cruise :)
 

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Regarding torque, check this out.

There's a rumor afoot on another board that Honda can get 180hp out of this engine with a tweaked IMA output. So I tried running some numbers...

The CRZ engine is based on the Fit engine, but has a detuned redline. The Fit engine makes 117 max hp at 6600 rpm.

The published hp of the CRZ engine is 112 (not including the elec motor).

Big assumption: We know the CRZ has a 6300-6500 redline. let's say the CRZ engine makes max power at 6100 rpm.

Then the CRZ gas engine is making about 96 lb-ft torque at max hp. (which seems valid as it's known the gas engine's max torque is 107 at a lower rpm... torque curve will roll off at high rpm).

So, if I add the full torque of the electric motor (58) to that I get around 154 lb-ft of torque.

At 6100 rpm that would translate into about... 180 hp.

So if this is the making of an urban legend, it assumes that all of the available published torque of the electric engine can be applied throughout the powerband.

Is it possible to run the IMA motor at full song? And isn't that what most everyone in this thread seems to want? :thumbsup:
 

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JnC thats what i want lol how can we maximize our ima output?
I haven't a clue. Don't know if it's physically possible. It would likely deplete the battery quick.

Sounds like we need an IMA tuner. We have this instant torque electric motor on board... why can't it be used at high rpm?

And I'm assuming that the IMA motor has a flat torque curve. It's certainly not flat in the way it's applied in Honda hybrids. Do they dial it back, or is not flat afterall? If it doesn't have a flat torque curve, it blows the rumor out of the water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So if this is the making of an urban legend, it assumes that all of the available published torque of the electric engine can be applied throughout the powerband.

Is it possible to run the IMA motor at full song? And isn't that what most everyone in this thread seems to want? :thumbsup:
one hole in this theory... electric motors do not operate like gasoline engines... they actually produce their MAXIMUM torque from start and it drops drastically near the peak rpm... hp also drops with this...

now here's a theory; if there was a way to have the IMA add it's power at a certain rpm, lets say 3500, then at that rpm you will get a KICK (we'll call it EVTEC :giggle: ) and surge of power increasing both hp/tq from that rpm on...
JnC thats what i want lol how can we maximize our ima output?
get a bigger motor :eek:hsnap:
I haven't a clue. Don't know if it's physically possible. It would likely deplete the battery quick.

Sounds like we need an IMA tuner. We have this instant torque electric motor on board... why can't it be used at high rpm?

And I'm assuming that the IMA motor has a flat torque curve. It's certainly not flat in the way it's applied in Honda hybrids. Do they dial it back, or is not flat afterall? If it doesn't have a flat torque curve, it blows the rumor out of the water.
lol, i responded to ur other post then i just read this one about adding it at a higher rpms...

and rumor blown... read my response about how electric motors work... you can run them at a constant rpm for hp, but for torque ur screwed...

if the IMA can be increased for more power, i bet it would shorten the life of it and probably the batteries too...
 

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My ideal CRZ would not be a hybrid. It would be a 1.8 liter direct injected conventional internal combustion with vtech and an 8200 rpm redline. Ideally it would function similar to the performance of my fit when the revs are kept below 5000 and get the same 36 MPG that my fit gets under those conditions. But when pushed into vtech it would sound and drive like my NSX. The shift from gear to gear at redline would keep the car in vetch and like the S2000 would be a hoot when thrashed like this.

I would maintain the 3 mode buttons each having unique fuel and cam mapping for economy or performance. In economy mode the fuel mapping would limit HP to 110, but in sport the richer fuel mixture and agressive cam would get things up to 175 or so. In normal something like 140 would be fine.

The lack of the hybrid bits would mean the cargo floor would be 4" deeper since there would not be any batteries underneath and it would weigh 175 pounds less without the batteries and electric motor. If some additional aluminum bits could replace some of the steel, perhaps another 150 pounds of weight savings could be achieved for an ideal curb weight of 2325 pounds.

It's performance would be 0-60 in 6.5 sec 0-100 in 16.5, 1/4 mile [email protected]
EPA 29/34 but would get me 36 mpg in non aggressive driving.

The thing is, I truly think this could be achieved if Honda put some effort towards it.

I would pay $26,000 to $30,000 for this level of performance and fuel economy. This slightly higher price point would provide a bit more exclusivity than the current CRZ price point.
 

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one hole in this theory... electric motors do not operate like gasoline engines... they actually produce their MAXIMUM torque from start and it drops drastically near the peak rpm... hp also drops with this...
Well, where the drop off occurs depends on the design of the electric motor.

Look at the Tesla Roadster. It only has one gear. Torque is flat up to around 6000 rpm, then it drops off linearly.

Originally it had two gears but due to reliability and procurement issues of the transmission they chose to run the motor to higher rpm. Had they a capable transmission, the rpm range could have been reduced and the usable curve would have been mostly flat throughout.



The IMA motor is completely different of course, and I agree what we see in it's performance is likely due to its design and not some governing by Honda.
 

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Is it possible to run the IMA motor at full song? And isn't that what most everyone in this thread seems to want? :thumbsup:
There are gonna be all kinds of tuning ideas available for this car. This will be the first hybrid car that people experiment on. I cannot wait to see what comes out. Im thinking along the lines of a larger output electric motor, maybe a supercharger, turbo kit, and more. Its kind of exciting...and I hope aftermarket companies will put the haters to bed!
 
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