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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The 2012 Honda Civic hybrid has been rolled out at the NY auto show along with it's EPA estimated mpg numbers. This car is Honda's first hybrid that uses Li-Ion batteries that have more capacity (in this case 5kW more powerful - 20kW) and a bit lighter in weight.

The gas engine has changed in capacity too, from 1.3L to 1.5L, offering a combined 110 hp. Even though the displacement is the same as the CR-Z, the heads are different: the Civic Hybrid is an 8 valve SOHC vs 16 valve on our cars.

So here's where the rubber meets the road...

The EPA numbers for the previous Honda Civic Hybrid were 40/43/41. (city/hwy/combined)

The numbers for the new model with bigger gas engine and Li-Ion based IMA is 44/44/44.

So roughly about a 7% improvement in the combined score. :thumbsup:

If we say that the fuelly average for a CR-Z is about 38 combined, this would translate to about 41 mpg. A modest little bump, but enough to break the 40 mpg barrier on a more consistent basis.

This motor also is the first instance of a Honda IMA system that allows electric only operation off the line. If the battery charge is sufficiently full, it can propel the car from stop to speeds up to 45 mph using only the electric motor.

Good stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good point. I forgot that the Civic uses a different IMA motor. Previously I thought the old motor was too thirsty for it's battery pack, forcing a ECU firmware revision that hampered efficiency. Perhaps the additional capacity of the battery pack would allow the more powerful IMA motor to be fitted to the CR-Z in the next version?

The CR-Z's chief engineer is on record for saying a new IMA system that would allow electric only operation was slated for the CR-Z.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Any link for this, sounds like a good read.
Actually, as I re-read the article, the part about the decoupled electric only operation appears to not be stated by the engineer, but is conjecture by the author of the article. But most of the points appear to be spot-on and consistent with what has been revealed on the HCH.

Hot CR-Z will be a hybrid - Autocar.co.uk

18 March 2011

Honda R&D chief Tomohiko Kawanabe has confirmed that the firm is working on a high-performance CR-Z hybrid.

In an exclusive interview with Autocar, Kawanabe admitted that development work on the more powerful two-door has started, and that — contrary to earlier reports — it will keep its IMA hybrid system.

“It’s true: we are working on a more powerful CR-Z,” he said. “Our problem with the car as it stands is that it looks very good, but it doesn’t have the performance some customers expect.”

Autocar’s sources suggest that Honda might turn to a turbocharged 1.6-litre engine for the new CR-Z, but Kawanabe refused to confirm this.

"The decision on the engine hasn’t been made,” he said. “Turbocharging is an option, but a high-compression petrol engine would work better in tandem with a hybrid assist system.”

It is highly likely that the faster CR-Z will use Honda’s next-generation IMA system, which will appear first in the US-market Civic Hybrid next year.

Featuring lithium ion batteries, the new IMA will be capable of producing twice as much power as Honda’s nickel-metal hydride system, without requiring a larger battery.

A more sophisticated coupling should also allow it to fully disengage from the engine during brake energy regeneration (something the current IMA system can’t do), allowing it to recapture more kinetic energy to recycle as electric power.

The problem for the CR-Z’s performance will be Honda’s efficiency targets. “It will not be acceptable for the new car to be less fuel efficient than the current one,” Kawanabe said. “The CR-Z must deliver low CO2 emissions, as well as be fun to drive.”

That being the case, a combined petrol-electric power increase to 160bhp is likely, delivered without compromising fuel efficiency thanks to that more powerful hybrid system.

Matt Saunders
Hot CR-Z will be a hybrid - Autocar.co.uk

I keep hearing a rumor about a next gen hybrid Accord that uses two IMA motors in tandem. This could be an approach Honda takes on the hotted up version of the CR-Z, but I have more confidence in them adopting the HCH decoupled IMA system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Now the real question is can the batter and/or the new IMA be placed in the current CR-Z?
If you mean current CR-Z, as in retrofit, not without a lot of expense and labor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It would be a DIY job but i would assume that if the same bolt pattens and connectiosn are used why not? Just a thought if I find one from a junk yard maybe.
(Edit: I responded before looking at page two. Everyone is spot-on)

Much more to it than that. If we're talking about swapping the device from the HCH...

Li-Ion has completely different charging characteristics than NiMH. So you'll need a new regulator to manage the charging, and likely a different set of wiring harnesses.

Likely a different ECU to manage the power. The HCH ECU isn't going to work as you have a 16V engine. The CR-Z ECU isn't going to work as you've doubled the battery capacity and it now has different level of charge.

Assuming that the new IMA motor is a direct fit, replacing one is extremely dangerous. And not from electricity. The force of the magnets is such that if you slip up while removing it, it can easily chop your fingers off as it reattaches to the engine housing.

And of course the danger of electricity from the battery pack.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But there's a lot more to it than just the battery and IMA motor.
 
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