Tuning the Lithium cars for more IMA power.

@PeterPerkins I am of the opinion that we just swap the entirety of the battery pack / inverter unit.
That way, we've only got things like current, voltage, and position sensor data to worry about.

Also the prices of just a used inverter is outrageous. Could buy a battery pack / PCU unit entirely instead.
They both are listed for around $500 USD. Not sure if this includes the inverter on the battery packs.
Examples: 2018-2020 HONDA ACCORD Battery hybrid battery OEM | eBay & 06-08 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID INVERTER IMA COMPUTER BATTERY CHARGER OEM DC DC | eBay
Prices seem to be all over the place. Guessing it depends on how much life is left on battery.

I spent most of today researching inverters for different Honda models and it seems there are two types: Mitsubishi and Keihin. I believe the use of Mitsubishi is part of their ongoing partnership with GM for electrification?
Ours seems to be Keihin. I think a good place to start is any of the newer models that use this same manufacturer.
I wasn't able to really verify this so disregard.

Seems a good way to find the voltages of the battery packs is this sticker I see on almost all Honda packs.
This is for a 2018 Accord Hybrid:


And this is for a 2014 Accord Hybrid:


Here in the states we have the Acura RLX which appears to also be a 260V battery.
Usually they get the more powerful drivetrains.
The CR-V appears to be a 260V battery as well.

PeterPerkins said:

In these newer higher voltage (260V) packs the inverter is up on the engine asfaik.
In the couple of CR-V ones I have disassembled here in UK the battery unit only contains the cells, battery management, contactors/fuses and dc-dc module etc.

Click to expand...

Update: I was a doofus and clicked on ILX instead of RLX...

The first Honda here in the us with the hybrid SH-AWD system was the 2014 RLX.
The sport hybrid is a DCT (stator in transmission) instead of the newer E-CVTs.
I suspect it's the same rotor / stator just put in the transmission instead.
They list it at 35kW.


The inverter is packaged like the nu-NSX, in the tunnel. It needs liquid cooling.
I couldn't find any pictures or more details about the PDU.

18 coils just like ours.

The "stator resolver" (position sensor) for the 2014 RLX is 1A810-5P8-004.
Which looks like this:



Aside from the mounting portion, it looks similar and uses the same plug as ours.
I think our position sensors are just three coils (hence 6 pin plug).



I think Acura service data would be the best way to find if the pinouts for the front inverter, within the PDU, are similar to ours.

Hey there Peter this might not be the right spot, but someone contacted me on Facebook asking questions about modifying the firmware for the CRZs we have a member near you that works on the CRZs as well, he wanted me to reach out to you and have a chat if there is a way for us to talk in a more real time type setting.
We do have a bit of the IMA tables defined already in the software

@ryanthegreat1 thank you for pointing me this direction with @HondaTuningSuite.
I really hope with some of the very smart people we have on this group we can get the mcm programable as well. I will do my best to get these guys what they need hardware wise such as mcm's, harnesses. Cluster. Ecu, ect. But to anyone else reading this. This is epic a company that wants to mess with the ima. Hondata and k tuner have lost my business.
And @PeterPerkins this is what i was sending you info about yesterday.

@HondaTuningSuite the things we discussed will greatly help this group. The members doing the fit cam and intake swap would really need the ge8 fit tune put into the crz ecu with vtec crossover point changed. Stock fit injectors or the accord k series injectors. 06 s2000 360cc? Injectors are direct drop in as well with no harness modifications.

Like ryanthegreat mentioned if possible the ability to run say the oem honda ntk 5 wire wideband with a circuit to control the heater, ability to run the oem honda electronic wastegate , and few other additional can bus or analog inputs_outputs.

Not sure how others on this group would ferl about this but id be ok with a donation to fund this and push it along.

ryanthegreat1 said:

Any chance you might add custom CAN bus features? Something to run an expansion board for the modern K and J series that are fully CAN and have no additional IO available onboard?

Boost controllers, traction control, ethenol content sensors, signal generators for non CAN instrument clusters, are all things that come to mind. I have asked Hondata and Ktuner and neither wanted anything to do with that.

Or maybe the ability to tweak the CAN messages to match an engine swap to a chassis.

I do this for my swaps and Arduino as a go between but it would be so much better if it could be done in the PCM.

Click to expand...

Well you can kind of cheat with traction control i believe, and use either VSA to some level if its built into the PCM already.
or simply a 2d or 3d lookup table of speed differences between the ABS sensors(Which the ecu can poll) and sensor from the transmission.
And then apply a ignition retard based on overspeed to control the amount or apply a rolling cut to keep power output down to keep it from spinning.

Boost control/flex fuel there are onboard devices you can use the inputs from, (EGR, PCV, 2nd O2 sensor, etc)
signal generators would probably be a fair bit harder, developing a standalone board that the factory ecu could use would be extremely hard, as we do have quite a bit of free space in most 1mb and 2mb roms, but its the way you have to generate your code for them makes that a lot more difficult, as each calibration id, would have to be modified for it.

Also it really depends on what you want changed in the canbus messages, a lot of them can be modified without a whole lot of effort.
HDS looks up what engine is available based on vinnumber, then calls ReadByIdentifier with the custom packet codes 0x2610-2615 and a couple others
that dumps out a stream (each packet being 57 bytes long) and those are the values that get looked up in HDS. So you can't really change it to say "this is a CRZ with a k24"
But I could be misunderstanding what your end goal there is. So please elaborate on it so I don't feel dumb

Slociviccoupe said:

@ryanthegreat1 thank you for pointing me this direction with @HondaTuningSuite.
I really hope with some of the very smart people we have on this group we can get the mcm programable as well. I will do my best to get these guys what they need hardware wise such as mcm's, harnesses. Cluster. Ecu, ect. But to anyone else reading this. This is epic a company that wants to mess with the ima. Hondata and k tuner have lost my business.
And @PeterPerkins this is what i was sending you info about yesterday.

@HondaTuningSuite the things we discussed will greatly help this group. The members doing the fit cam and intake swap would really need the ge8 fit tune put into the crz ecu with vtec crossover point changed. Stock fit injectors or the accord k series injectors. 06 s2000 360cc? Injectors are direct drop in as well with no harness modifications.

Like ryanthegreat mentioned if possible the ability to run say the oem honda ntk 5 wire wideband with a circuit to control the heater, ability to run the oem honda electronic wastegate , and few other additional can bus or analog inputs_outputs.

Not sure how others on this group would ferl about this but id be ok with a donation to fund this and push it along.

Click to expand...

Like i had said in our dms on facebook, using the maps from the Fit are not really a huge deal, changing vtec is also simple.
if you are swapping in the Fit intake/cam then the maf curve you should just have to copy from the Fit rom to the CRZ rom.
The injector scaling as well, Honda factory injector setups are a bit strange, but just copying over the base pulsewidth tables,
the built in speed density tables(Which are extremely small and limited 6x3), and the cranking/wallwetting stuff should be relatively easy to move those injectors over as well.

Not sure if the Fit has IMRC but if it does, thats where the difficulty would come from as i dont believe(but not sure) the CRZ has IMRC.

I want to dig a lot more into what can and can't be done with the CRZ. If honda can update the MCM then i can as well, time is my only limiting factor, but i need to get a full dump from the uC of the MCM. So that will be my first goal. Full dump of the MCM, Do some reverse engineering finding out limits, if there are any tables, etc.
We have done quite a bit of work on the PCM side, so we have a lot of the IMA tables defined and mapped in HTS already, which handles things like The Assist/regen Request

If someone wants to donate a CRZ to the cause i wouldn't say no lol.
Unfortunately HTS doesn't really make the kind of money I wish it did to be able to just go grab a new platform for developing on
We are relatively new to the game, and we are trying to contend with the big hitters, so we have like a 0.00001% market share compared to anyone else.

But i will do what i can with bench setups its pretty much how i have gotten by so far.