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Discussion Starter #1
So unlike 99% of you guys here, I'm planning on buying this car for it's fuel efficiency and not so much the sportiness (though I don't mind that :) )

I'm a hypermiler, and don't know if anyone else here plans on doing that or modifying solely for efficiency, but my question is...

what mpg numbers do you really think we can get? gen 1 insight numbers maybe? (60+mpg)
 

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I will be interested in your results, but I cannot predict anything even close the to original Insight.

Considering the differences

Weight: Original Insight 1850 lbs. CRZ 2640 lbs.
Engine: Original Insight 3 Cyl 1.0L CRZ 4 cyl 1.5L
Tire size: Original Insight 165/65 CRZ 195/55
Drag coefficient: Original Insight .25 with a smaller frontal area CRZ ?? but much greater than .25

Based on these differences, the CRZ, which is still utilizing the same basic IMA technology, is going to be at least 30 to 40% less fuel efficient than the original Insight.
 

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there will be better computer control technology on the fuel usage etc. in ten+ years which might help. but you are right that it won't get 60 - i'm only in 30s for city driving so far.
 

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I find that REALLY strange that it can't get any better... Heck It gets almost the same as the NON hybrid Honda fit... ??
 

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:yeahthat:


i'd really like to see your results Bass... i'm interested in efficiency but also being able to move at a decent pace so my mods will be mixed... more focused on efficiently creating power...

i expect real-world numbers around 45-55mpg combined... +60mpg should be possible in an all highway hypermiling drive... i wouldn't be shocked to see over 80mpg if someone knows how to be really good at hypermiling... what's the record like 110mpg or something on a gen1 Insight?? that's where i'm grabbing my numbers from...
 

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Yeah with the MIMA controller they make for the gen1 (which I'm sure they will make for the crz) they can get well over 100mpg it's insane.

The thing about mods is that most people don't know that fuel efficiency and fast go hand in hand. If you were to make wheel covers (like racing discs or wheel fairings) you would get both better fuel efficiency AND a higher top speed and better acceleration

So you don't really have to give one up to get the other one.

Hasn't someone here already gotten 40+mpg on regular mixed driving? (I'm sure in 100% Eco mode and hypermiling it we could get at least 48-50mpg.
 

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I've managed 60+ MPG sustained on the highway in my civic hybrid.

However the CR-Z the 6-speed MT is not going to have ideal gear ratios for highway cruising. As already noted over at cleanmpg.com the 6-speed CR-Z runs rather high rpm's on the interstate. Almost 3000 rpm needed to do 70 according to Wayne, who had a press fleet CR-Z EX for a couple days.

The CVT models may end up managing the best fuel economy because they can keep rev's sustained much lower.

Also the CR-Z lacks the third stage VTEC from the civic hybrid. The Insight II also lacks this which is partly why despite being several hundred pounds lighter the Insight II nets a lower EPA highway number. 43 vs 45.
 

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i would agree with your logic... the one thing those number don't take into consideration is the human factor... the human can alter their driving in a manual car easier than a CVT or Auto car... which is one of the reasons why everyone praises the gen1 Insight for having manual... they were able to not only add something called MIMA which allowed them to turn on/off the IMA per drivers request... and coasting is also easier in manual than auto b/c once it's back in gear it goes to your desired rpm unlike an auto car...

like i said b4... i avg 46mpg 80%hwy/20%city on a 2009 LX Civic Sedan... with IMA and a smaller engine... i'm sure i can get more than that... not to mention my Si at 4000rpm averaged 32hwy/mpg with 500lbs extra in the already 3000lbs (me+car) car... btw my Si was also at 3000rpm doing 70mph and still got great hwy gas mileage...
 

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I don't mean this to come off as rude but could you provide photos to show the 48 mpg in a civic LX?

50 mpg or so the goal of many hypermilers in the Honda Fit. An even smaller car. They go all out with pulse & glide driving. Basically they keep killing the engine and use momentum and pumped up tires to spend long distances gliding.

Here in CT If I stick to the speed limit of 65 mph and use A/C I'll get just 40-41 mpg. Do 55 mph and I might get 45-48 mostly thanks to 50 psi LRR tires and the little 1.3L engine.

Unless your just plodding along at 50 or so on a flat section of FL interstate with no A/C I can't see the R18 civic managing close to 50 mpg....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah I didn't forget to add if anyone has the cvt version posts your numbers here as that's what im looking to get (because, of course, the fuel efficiency of the cvt).
 

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I don't mean this to come off as rude but could you provide photos to show the 48 mpg in a civic LX?

50 mpg or so the goal of many hypermilers in the Honda Fit. An even smaller car. They go all out with pulse & glide driving. Basically they keep killing the engine and use momentum and pumped up tires to spend long distances gliding.

Here in CT If I stick to the speed limit of 65 mph and use A/C I'll get just 40-41 mpg. Do 55 mph and I might get 45-48 mostly thanks to 50 psi LRR tires and the little 1.3L engine.

Unless your just plodding along at 50 or so on a flat section of FL interstate with no A/C I can't see the R18 civic managing close to 50 mpg....
no photos b/c the regular civic doesn't show a mpg readout anywhere on the car... this was all basic math calculations...

most of Florida is pretty flat... very slow start from stops in city driving (staying under 2000rpms)... most (95%) of my highway travel was at 55mph, fastest being 75 for few seconds, with the windows cracked and the A/C vent open and A/C off... temp outside was around low-mid 70's... i had 450miles on that tank and the meter just dropped to 4 bars left... knowing that 2 bars = roughly 1 Gal US... and no bars left on civic means 1 gal reserve left... meaning i had a little over 3 gal left... the civic has a 13.2 gal tank including reserve... i actually managed to squeeze in 9.8 gallons on that fill up... so it's simple math really...

13.2 - 3.4 (4bars + 1 gal reserve) = 9.8
450 miles / 9.8 = 45.92

those numbers plus knowing the Guinness World Record on a Civic Hybrid getting 68.54mpg with 3ppl and luggage... i'd say getting over 45mpg on a regular civic implementing a few hypermiling techniques is in the realm of reality...


*sn edit*
on a non-hypermiling trip to New Jersey, +1300miles one-way, in my Si i averaged 31.8mpg with myself 220lbs, a 225lb passenger, and a trunk/backseat FULL of equipment and luggage (roughly 250lbs)... and for anyone that doesn't know, it takes about 6hrs to get from the Miami/Ft Lauderdale area to the FL/Georgia border (360miles), i did it in just over 4hrs on a single tank of gas, the math equates to an avg speed of 90mph which is about right and a few times hitting 110mph... total trip time was around 19hrs only stopping for gas and a 1hr wait for highway patrol for an incident i encountered with a semi-truck having road rage and almost running me and my friend off the road and him hitting my car with something leaving a ding on the passenger side... i'm just saying these driving habits don't exactly indicate someone trying to maximize the mpg lol... but it shows the efficiency of Honda's bigger engine Civics...
 

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I've made a couple of trips from southeast Georgia coast up to the mountains in the northern part of the state (where Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia meet.) During those trips which are mostly interstate driving, I've gotten 42 and 44 mpg. That's using cruise at the speed limit (predominately 70 MPH) and using a/c. This is in an '08 Civic Coupe LX A/T with just myself (130 lbs.) and some luggage. I'm very pleased with my car's mileage and am very curious to see how the CR-Z does.
 

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I wish the North East was flat like FL.

But not quite the weather. Damn does it get humid and sticky in central FL :blush:

To share another tidbit: My best trip was drafting a truck over 75 miles of I-84. Not the safest thing move to make but 62 mpg was the cars trip readout.

Going back to the CR-Z I just hope it can pull close to 40 on the interstate. I will probably ask the dealer if I can run a couple interstate runs reseting the trip meter each time. I want to be sure. If the CR-Z is only good for 33-35 mpg with the 6-speed... then I don't see why this car is worth it over other gassers.
 

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The types of highway trips cited above are very flat straight interstate driving with very little variation in throttle inputs and almost no braking. As a result the hybrid technology is not going to add any additional fuel economy benefit. As a result I do not think that the CRZ would achieve much better fuel economy under the same conditions. In fact I think the coefficient of drag for the civic is lower than that of the CRZ and the civic weighs less, so the CRZ may actually achieve less fuel economy under these same conditions.

One thing for certain is that the CRZ will not achieve fuel economy equal to or better than the Insight or Civic Hybrid due to it's larger engine, wider tires and higher Cd.
 

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Yeah with the MIMA controller they make for the gen1 (which I'm sure they will make for the crz) they can get well over 100mpg it's insane.
Not as easy as it sounds... the CR-Z, like the Gen 2 Insight has a CAN Bus to control all signals/codes, example for the assist and regen. It's not the usual PIDs, but rather a kind of "recipie" known only by Honda, as fas as we know... but if anybody has these codes, it would be very helpful. We are already working with Mike Dabrowski to see if we can make the Insight 2 MIMA, which then would probably be compatible witht the CR-Z.

The Gen1 Insight didn't have a CAN Bus, it was a bit easier to create the MIMA. Without the CAN codes, it will be a trial and error to sniff what goes in the CAN Bus. Not impossible, but much more difficult.

I believe the record for the Gen1 insight, in a hypermiling competition, is 124mpg.

Wayne Gerdes recently drove a CR-Z (still drives...??). He is getting 65-70mpg so far (but he is Wayne Gerdes...). Some interesting reporting (page 3 starts to show mpg trials):

Honda Is Entrusting CleanMPG With the 6-speed CR-Z For A Week :D - CleanMPG Forums
 

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The types of highway trips cited above are very flat straight interstate driving with very little variation in throttle inputs and almost no braking. As a result the hybrid technology is not going to add any additional fuel economy benefit. As a result I do not think that the CRZ would achieve much better fuel economy under the same conditions. In fact I think the coefficient of drag for the civic is lower than that of the CRZ and the civic weighs less, so the CRZ may actually achieve less fuel economy under these same conditions.

One thing for certain is that the CRZ will not achieve fuel economy equal to or better than the Insight or Civic Hybrid due to it's larger engine, wider tires and higher Cd.
the lightest current-gen civic weighs over 50lbs more than the heaviest CR-Z...

and the slow hwy acceleration is where the IMA would come in handy vs using only the gas engine...

Not as easy as it sounds... the CR-Z, like the Gen 2 Insight has a CAN Bus to control all signals/codes, example for the assist and regen. It's not the usual PIDs, but rather a kind of "recipie" known only by Honda, as fas as we know... but if anybody has these codes, it would be very helpful. We are already working with Mike Dabrowski to see if we can make the Insight 2 MIMA, which then would probably be compatible witht the CR-Z.

The Gen1 Insight didn't have a CAN Bus, it was a bit easier to create the MIMA. Without the CAN codes, it will be a trial and error to sniff what goes in the CAN Bus. Not impossible, but much more difficult.

I believe the record for the Gen1 insight, in a hypermiling competition, is 124mpg.

Wayne Gerdes recently drove a CR-Z (still drives...??). He is getting 65-70mpg so far (but he is Wayne Gerdes...). Some interesting reporting (page 3 starts to show mpg trials):

Honda Is Entrusting CleanMPG With the 6-speed CR-Z For A Week :D - CleanMPG Forums
wow, thanks for the update purp... amazing to know the car can actually reach numbers like those mentioned in that thread... here's a pic from that for anyone interested... btw, this is in US mpg not UK...

this was a photo of a short city drive with some traffic according to the OP...


"2011 Honda CR-Z - 65.0 mpg after 431 miles per the aFCD."

another picture right under this read "2011 Honda CR-Z - 6.543 gallons over 431.0 miles = 65.872 mpg.
aFCD reads almost 1.5% under actual"

and i'm not exactly sure what he did here but i'll quote him... "Unadjusted 113.5 mpg (114.9 mpg actual) RT Comp P&G segment. Unadjusted
59.3 mpg (60.0 mpg actual) w/out A/C heading out and with A/C coming back."

:eek2:
 

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I knew the 6MT had way more potential than the CVT equipped CR-Z... but i had no idea it was that much more... the OP of that thread above even said the most he ever got on the HI-II (Honda Insight-II) was 90.X mpg... and that car is CVT only... he Trumped it by nearly 25mpg :woot:
 

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Wayne is the godfather of hypermiling. His P&G (Pulse and Glide) technique is very efficient. I would not surprized he bump the CR-Z 90+mpg once the engine breaks in and he gets used to the car.
 
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