Spark Plug Clarification Please

16746 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Hootie, Oct 26, 2018

SMB

Discussion Starter · Oct 13, 2018

So my car is due a 50k (miles) service soon and I would be grateful if I could get some clarification on some spark plugs. Looking into this I see the Denso IK22 5310 seem to be a choice that although isn't listed as being suitable for the CRZ is an option. Ive read the threads on here about people changing them but no long term reviews / comments afterwards. Can anyone shine some light on these please? Currently my car has a Cat back exhaust on it and hopefully this weekend will have a Takeda intake fitted with the intention of the GE8 manifold to follow soon.
Thanks in advance!

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Spdbump

· #2 · Oct 13, 2018

Why are you considering changing the spark plugs?I thought the replacement interval was 100K . If it were me I would pull them and inspect them for gap and condition since intake will be off any way.

The Speed Bump has 60K on it and original plugs and works great.

SMB said:
So my car is due a 50k (miles) service soon and I would be grateful if I could get some clarification on some spark plugs. Looking into this I see the Denso IK22 5310 seem to be a choice that although isn't listed as being suitable for the CRZ is an option. Ive read the threads on here about people changing them but no long term reviews / comments afterwards. Can anyone shine some light on these please? Currently my car has a Cat back exhaust on it and hopefully this weekend will have a Takeda intake fitted with the intention of the GE8 manifold to follow soon.
Thanks in advance!

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litz

· #3 · Oct 14, 2018

SMB said:
So my car is due a 50k (miles) service soon and I would be grateful if I could get some clarification on some spark plugs. Looking into this I see the Denso IK22 5310 seem to be a choice that although isn't listed as being suitable for the CRZ is an option. Ive read the threads on here about people changing them but no long term reviews / comments afterwards. Can anyone shine some light on these please? Currently my car has a Cat back exhaust on it and hopefully this weekend will have a Takeda intake fitted with the intention of the GE8 manifold to follow soon.
Thanks in advance!

On USA models, at least, the Maintenance Minder Maintenance Sub Item #4 states to replace spark plugs with either of the following:

DIFR6A13G (NGK)
DK20PR-D13 (DENSO)
(gap to 0.047--0.051 inches; torque to 13 lbf-ft)

Another page of the service manual states:
DIFR6A13G (NGK) 2011 model year
DIFR6D13 (NGK) 2112 model year
DK20PR-D13 (DENSO)

Of course, this is the 2011-2012 service manual, as I don't have the 2013+ specs.

No reason to deviate from the suggested plug type unless you're going supercharger, and then you might want to go to 1 step colder plug. I think you can normally get 100,000 miles out of the plug before they need changed (unless there's a specific issue with performance and/or inspection that requires you to do otherwise.)

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SMB

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 16, 2018

Thanks for the information. Like Spdbump suggested I will have a look when I get round to doing the intake / manifold (Now hopefully next weekend).
I dont see the plugs lasting till 100,00 miles as i do a lot of start driving to and from work and dont think helps towards the life span of the plugs.
My thinking behind changing the plugs kind of follows on from Litz about supercharging and the increase in power/torque. Didn't know if there was any extra benefit once the intake and manifold was fitted?

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Defiant

· #5 · Oct 16, 2018

Getting rid of tetraethyl lead from gasoline has made the plugs' and cylinders' life much easier. Not like the chapter in the Sprite shop manual that explains how to decarbonize the head and pistons at 20K miles.

Hell, the valve adjustment on the Z is spec'ed at 100K, if they need it.

It's a different world.

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litz

· #6 · Oct 16, 2018

SMB said:
... Didn't know if there was any extra benefit once the intake and manifold was fitted?

Not really, but the only extra benefit in putting in new plugs while swapping out the manifold, is that you'll get to see the half-life of the original plugs at the 50k mark--and you're under there wrenchin' anyhow. I'll be changing mine at 50k intervals because of the Supercharger, but even though you don't, new plugs are better than old plugs, even if they might have some more life left to them.

Some people take their plugs out to check their condition--then reinstall them--but if I take them out, I'll put a new set in just because the crush washer gets crushed further each time you put them back in and torque them down (so, don't take them out unless you plan/want to change them.) On my 1st Gen Insight, however, I just changed the plugs twice so far--at 100,000 mile intervals--and they really didn't look bad enough to change at the time, so most people will be content with driving the car 'til they sell it, never having the need to change them.

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d1giPhux

· #7 · Oct 23, 2018

SMB said:
Thanks for the information. Like Spdbump suggested I will have a look when I get round to doing the intake / manifold (Now hopefully next weekend).
I dont see the plugs lasting till 100,00 miles as i do a lot of start driving to and from work and dont think helps towards the life span of the plugs.
My thinking behind changing the plugs kind of follows on from Litz about supercharging and the increase in power/torque. Didn't know if there was any extra benefit once the intake and manifold was fitted?

They will last longer. Mine lasted to around 160k+ .. but yeah. My ignition coil broke first anyways. Might want to buy a spare one of those online cheap while you can. I paid $150 for ONE from the dealer because they had it in stock and I needed the car to run.

Honestly, your plugs are probably fine. I have ran the NGK you state, and they are still running good without about 30k on them. I heard the denso are very good too, thats what my stock were.

Either way, I would not waste the $$. You will know when they are dying. And i'll bet your coil dies first too.

Mine did, and it started slowly misfiring over time. Then eventually just died and the car ran on 3 cylinders. Like crap..

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rayray

· #8 · Oct 23, 2018

as litz noted, this is what honda has listed currently for a 2013 6MT in the USA (what is offered and recommended in the UK may differ)
DIFR6D13 (NGK)
DK20PR-D13 (DENSO)

both are iridium long life plugs and interchangeable (use all matching spark plugs obviously). both are relatively "hot" spark plugs, designed for maximum fuel efficiency and clean burn in a stock engine. generally speaking, when tuning or modifying anything related to the engine, it's best to treat recommendations on a case-by-case scenario. when going forced induction, adding compression, and even, yes, aggressive or sustained throttle may call for going a step or two "colder" spark plug.

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Hootie

· #9 · Oct 24, 2018

To be honest, running one step colder plug was proven to be beneficial for the L15A1 (which shares similar specs to our LEA) and was proven by Oscar Jackson Sr of Jackson Racing in both S/C AND NA applications, usually resulting in about a 3 to 5 WHP gain in NA applications. The same has held true with the following L15A7 and likely is true with the LEA since it is a hodgepodge between the A1 and A7 (I'm not as deeply involved with the CR-Z community as the Fit so honestly cannot confirm or deny).

Link below to the old Kraftwerks thread when the Jacksons ran the show. Note: The Kraftwerks links do not work, thread is from 2009 and before Hondata Flash Pro was available for the GD Fit and the CR-Z was NOT in production yet.

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit...uning/44634-oscar-jackson-sr-spark-plugs.html

With that said, if you're doing a lot of spirited driving, autocross, or road racing... maybe consider going one step colder plug. If you're using the CR-Z as a simple commuter/gently driven daily then you might want to keep running the current/factory heat range spark plug. Like mentioned above, that's what will give you the cleanest burn and generally yields the maximum fuel efficiency.

As for valve adjustments... I understand that Honda recommends it at either 100k or as needed if you hear valve train chatter. I personally do it every 30 to 45k on my GD when it was daily driven or once a year since it was S/C'ed and autocrossed frequently. The CR-Z I plan on doing the 30 to 45k schedule... The reason being is that some old school die hards when it comes to maintenance in the Fit community have seen that valve lash has been noted to go out of spec as soon as 50k miles in some cases. With the LEA being a mix of the A1 and A7, that still could be true.

I'll be doing my valve adjust on my 2016 around November/December-ish since I'm approaching 30k miles and quite curious to see the specs of the valve lash myself.

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Koala Yummies

· #10 · Oct 24, 2018

Might help dissuade some of the improved-clearance-tolerance-longer-service-intervals-maintenance-minder-non-believers to mention that the recommended plugs are $30 a piece... discounted. And they're Japanese automotive engineers so what do they know right?

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Defiant

· #11 · Oct 25, 2018

Hootie said:
To be honest, running one step colder plug was proven to be beneficial for the L15A1 (which shares similar specs to our LEA) and was proven by Oscar Jackson Sr of Jackson Racing in both S/C AND NA applications, usually resulting in about a 3 to 5 WHP gain in NA applications......

Bah. It's not possible to do two dyno runs and get them to be within 5 horse of one another. But spark plugs are a religion, and arguing about them only leads you to hell.

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SMB

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 25, 2018

Thanks for the input everyone as its all very much appreciated. Still leading towards changing them once the Manifold goes on to try and extract the best out of the modifications. Lets face it, a Custom exhaust, Takeda intake and Fit manifold definitely not a standard CRZ!

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Spdbump

· #13 · Oct 25, 2018

SMB said:
Thanks for the input everyone as its all very much appreciated. Still leading towards changing them once the Manifold goes on to try and extract the best out of the modifications. Lets face it, a Custom exhaust, Takeda intake and Fit manifold definitely not a standard CRZ!

and not enough changes to warrant replacing working spark plugs but it is your car your money. Enjoy!:surprise:

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Hootie

· #14 · Oct 26, 2018

Defiant said:
Bah. It's not possible to do two dyno runs and get them to be within 5 horse of one another. But spark plugs are a religion, and arguing about them only leads you to hell.

Actually it is... Consistency is key. With the CR-Z, I can imagine it being a little more difficult due to the IMA battery assisting mid-pull but it should be manageable. And even with that, L series engines are noisy little things that can indeed send false knock signals mid-pull at times.

During our dyno sessions, we noted ambient air temp those nights and monitored IAT, ECT, engine oil temp, knock count and more while datalogging via Hondata Flash Pro as well as making at a specific IAT and ECT temp each pull. We constantly seen pulls within 3 WHP of each other on MSR Houston's Dynojet for both the baseline and after the spark plug swap on the Fit... The only major variable was outside temp those evenings BUT the shop was closed off with heaters going both nights so again, the temperatures were pretty consistent.

I do agree with you in regards to spark plugs being a religion... Many people have their own theories and methods behind why they choose model 'X" over model "Y" based upon *insert criteria and test procedures*. That debate can go on forever and a half...

However again, in the case of my L15A1 and our findings, we did see a consistent gain of about 5 WHP over the baseline run prior to doing any fuel or ignition tuning via Hondata by going with a one step colder spark plug. The previous plugs in the car only had MAYBE 25k, 30k max and were OEM Honda NGKs, The ones swapped in were one step colder copper NGKs that are commonly used in Spec Miatas, basically a cheapie 8 buck plug from the local parts house.

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