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Discussion Starter #141
My mistake. I thought "reluctor" was a misspelling of "reductor" or "reduction". You learn something new every day.
 

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62545
Screenshot_20201107-223155.png


Bolts to the box on the outside of the diff housing, defo off the reluctor disk. I had an image somewhere before that I can't find again where the disc is shown on the diff.

It's like the cam/crank sensor, there'll be x amount of teeth with one missing type of a thing. Going off that image it's too far out from the CS to read directly off it.

62546
_20201107_224044.JPG


Cvt transmission but diff/input /output shafts all in same orientation-diff also same(diff fd ratio)

Vss reads off the toothed wheel on the diff above.

Thinking this through and trying to parse it out as simply as possible.

Vss takes reading
Translates that into a road speed.

Vss is unaware of the fd ratio.
Fd ratio changes(presumably)

Vss continues to send data as always
However, rpm at a given road speed has changed.

Normally people throw a shorter fd so
rpm is higher for a given road speed, but your (presumably) longer fd is giving you the opposite hence why your travelling 5mph faster for the same rpm.


Any updates on this?

62549
Screenshot_20201107-230756.png


From this forum, final drive change (shorter) gave same issues your experiencing.
 

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Discussion Starter #143
Thanks for the new information, especially that posting from 2014 regarding a final drive gear change and the IMA battery not charging.

I've been busy this past week and I also needed to use my car. I have a Honda specialist shop in mind that is a bit under a 4 mile walk away, which is convenient.
I will stop by the shop next week and see if they are willing to have an actual conversation instead of just throwing "facts" at me.
 

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Thanks for the new information, especially that posting from 2014 regarding a final drive gear change and the IMA battery not charging.

I've been busy this past week and I also needed to use my car. I have a Honda specialist shop in mind that is a bit under a 4 mile walk away, which is convenient.
I will stop by the shop next week and see if they are willing to have an actual conversation instead of just throwing "facts" at me.

That posting might shed light on why you have no regen, that poster mentions the ecu confused over which gear it is in due to rpm/road speed difference. Maybe that's what is causing your lack of regen too 😕

I don't envy you i think you are the first person who has this issue accidentally and by that I mean you never changed your fd yourself.

Keep us posted.
 

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I have just skimmed this long thread.

Perhaps the OP can confirm/summarise a few things before I stick my head too far above the parapet.


1) The gearbox broke, something had a unexpected trip around inside and it was repaired by a specialist shop?
2) On it's return regen doesn't work when coasting or when braking?
3) The speedo is now over reading by 5mph compared to before the repair/incident?
4) Obvious causes like low 12v batteries, blown fuses, duff brake pedal switches etc have been eliminated?
5) It is suspected the mismatch between the roadspeed/rpm etc is being caused by a change in the final drive/gear ratios somehow?

What happens if you disconnect the VSS sensor, (unplug it)?

Does IMA functionality return now when driving? (You will get a VSS/IMA code of course)
 

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Yes, I just found the same thread from 2014 stating that there was no regen if the FD was changed.
Peter, its looking like it is the mismatch in VSS reading compared to engine rpm after the FD change.
However I am bemused by the lack of a DTC, let alone a warning light. You'd have thought that the IMA or PGMFi ecus would have logged one if the regen charging has been disabled. I concluded it was an undocumented fault condition for which Honda didn't think to program a DTC thinkg that no one would change the FD!
But would you not see the HDS data reflect the battery state and regen status?
 

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Everything you have asked is covered in this thread but to summarize for you. The Answer is a mostly yes to all. It does some regeneration when coasting. That is a partial Yes and a partial No. Specially he mentioned no regeneration when braking.

I have just skimmed this long thread.

Perhaps the OP can confirm/summarise a few things before I stick my head too far above the parapet.


1) The gearbox broke, something had a unexpected trip around inside and it was repaired by a specialist shop?
2) On it's return regen doesn't work when coasting or when braking?
3) The speedo is now over reading by 5mph compared to before the repair/incident?
4) Obvious causes like low 12v batteries, blown fuses, duff brake pedal switches etc have been eliminated?
5) It is suspected the mismatch between the roadspeed/rpm etc is being caused by a change in the final drive/gear ratios somehow?

What happens if you disconnect the VSS sensor, (unplug it)?

Does IMA functionality return now when driving? (You will get a VSS/IMA code of course)
 

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OK so basically it's the wrong FD ratio causing the ECM to stop requesting coasting or braking regen.
That will have to be fixed by correcting the gear ratio..

The HDS will show the SOC etc

Note the ECM (Engine Control Module) commands regen and assist, not the PCM/MCM.
The PCM is a Slave that sends SOC info to it's Master the ECM.

If the SOC is at 30% for instance the ECM says OK the battery is low lets have some regen.
It then commands the regen (tells the slave to start regening) and varies it depending on engine load, braking coasting, acceleration, tps, map etc etc etc.
Swapping back and forth between assist/regen etc as necessary until the SOC gets to where it needs to be.

If the SOC is really low the ECM won't command assist/auto stop start and vice versa if it's really high it won't command regen.

The PCM will only intervene if the battery overheats or has some other serious problem.
Then it will cut regen or assist of it's own accord ignoring what the ECM is commanding at the time.
It will set various flags in the data stream telling the ECM it's all gone wrong back here time to get help.. :eek:
 

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OK so basically it's the wrong FD ratio causing the ECM to stop requesting coasting or braking regen.
That will have to be fixed by correcting the gear ratio..

The HDS will show the SOC etc

Note the ECM (Engine Control Module) commands regen and assist, not the PCM/MCM.
The PCM is a Slave that sends SOC info to it's Master the ECM.

If the SOC is at 30% for instance the ECM says OK the battery is low lets have some regen.
It then commands the regen (tells the slave to start regening) and varies it depending on engine load, braking coasting, acceleration, tps, map etc etc etc.
Swapping back and forth between assist/regen etc as necessary until the SOC gets to where it needs to be.

If the SOC is really low the ECM won't command assist/auto stop start and vice versa if it's really high it won't command regen.

The PCM will only intervene if the battery overheats or has some other serious problem.
Then it will cut regen or assist of it's own accord ignoring what the ECM is commanding at the time.
It will set various flags in the data stream telling the ECM it's all gone wrong back here time to get help.. :eek:
In his case Braking regeneration is not being commanded. Coasting was still working unless I misread.
 

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Have I misread that then somewhere. Hmm.

I thought it said the car was background charging, but charge did not increase on the overrun/coast down or with braking as would be expected?
 

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No, coasting is not working either - you've not misread it. But there must be some background charging going on or he'd have the IMA light one due to very low SOC.
 

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Low level background charging (hidden or visible) happens when driving and when stopped at idle, and is not dependent or related to gears/vehicle speed etc.

Coasting and braking regen of course is related to vehicle speed, clutch, gears, brakes etc.

Looks like the OP has only one choice. Fix the ratio issue. :(
 

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That makes sense as background charging (hidden or visible) happens even stopped at idle, and is not dependent or related to vehicle speed.

Looks like the OP has only one choice. Fix the ratio issue. :(
He mentioned it charges whilst in traffic or travelling at a constant speed.

It's an odd issue, the post from 2014 has some broken English but from what I read (not the whole thread) that member changed to a very aggressive 4.9 fd and found out after investigation for the same symptoms that the system(not sure if ecm or other) was confused as to what gear it was actually in. It appears as though that poster has no warning light but again I haven't read the whole thread.

The OP of this thread hasn't had much luck with the repair shop.

They are adamant that a FD change will throw a code in any vehicle (from experience with Sir/type-r I've had this is a bogus claim)

They have suggested all gears MUST be changed in order to change the fd, again from experience not true however we have proof from part numbers that all gears are the same from 10-16,only fd/crown wheel have different pn.

They aren't able to provide details of what was ordered in the rebuild either which is odd when they surmised that a bolt fell into the rotating shafts whilst the car was on the move so it sounds like alot of potential damage.
 

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No, but the dealer/workshop deny they've caused the problem (" no DTCs " blah blah).
Looks like we'll be seeing him on Judge Judy next year when he sues them for the cost of fixing it!
 

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No, but the dealer/workshop deny they've caused the problem (" no DTCs " blah blah).
Looks like we'll be seeing him on Judge Judy next year when he sues them for the cost of fixing it!
Alongside Donald and his accusations of voter fraud🤣🤣

I think they just changed the tranny and charged for the rebuild. They've said they ordered off of the vin so you'd assume or hope this would result in the correct parts fitted.

Seeing as the can't verify what was ordered i'm suspicious if they ordered anything and got a tranny from a scap yard.
 

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If they rebuilt the transmission they simply did not verify the parts they ordered matched the car. maybe they presumed all were the same and or the supplier they used did know know any better.

Alongside Donald and his accusations of voter fraud🤣🤣

I think they just changed the tranny and charged for the rebuild. They've said they ordered off of the vin so you'd assume or hope this would result in the correct parts fitted.

Seeing as the can't verify what was ordered i'm suspicious if they ordered anything and got a tranny from a scap yard.
 

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Discussion Starter #159 (Edited)
Regen happens very briefly during coasting. When I take my foot off the accelerator, the CHRG meter pulses for about a second up to 3-4 bars and then drops down to no bars. The IMA battery is being recharged when I am able to drive at constant speed.

I think they just changed the tranny and charged for the rebuild. They've said they ordered off of the vin so you'd assume or hope this would result in the correct parts fitted.

Seeing as the can't verify what was ordered i'm suspicious if they ordered anything and got a tranny from a scap yard.
That occurred to me when the "Honda specialist" in the same area also claimed that it was not physically possible to change just the final drive gears, and that any change to gearing ratio would cause a CEL, etc. That sound suspiciously like collusion amongst repair shops to mislead consumers in order to commit fraud.
I did consider the scenario where my transmission was swapped out with a used one from a 2011-2012 car so my tranny could be sold as a "factory new" 2014 transmission, but proving that to a judge or jury would cost more time and money than I am willing to spend.

If they rebuilt the transmission they simply did not verify the parts they ordered matched the car. maybe they presumed all were the same and or the supplier they used did know know any better.
I think this is the most likely scenario.
The repair shop is AAA approved but I have no information about the shop that rebuilt the transmission. The repair shop could be covering for the transmission shop in order to protect the repair shop's rating and reputation.
 

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I'm with Tank on this. I think they just swapped the gearbox but weren't aware that the FD was not the same between pre and post 2013 cars. (Otherwise they'd have swapped it over)
Your simplest option is to get hold of a later gearbox and find somewhere to swap it over. Then take the other back for a refund, or litigation if they refuse.
 
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