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I will give a more complete explanation when I can...but hopefully this will help you to understand.


The large arrow is the compressive force on the suspension during turns. This is the OUTSIDE wheel. The small arrow is the corresponding upward force applied by RSB on the inside wheel.

I think you are confusing yourself by concentrating on the inside wheel...the inside wheel is not experiencing the load in a corner. What happens in a turn is the weight of the vehicle is transferred to the OUTSIDE wheel (inertia, body roll, etc)....this force compresses the outside shock. The RSB, helping the suspension to work in concert, applies a corresponding upward force to the inside wheel's shock...this upward force reduces grip (because there is less downward force exerted by the inside rear tire) and leaves the outside tire to do the lion's share of work. Less grip results in less traction and the rear end rotates in the corner. In auto cross...you WANT the rear end to lose traction when you let off the throttle otherwise you would nose dive into every corner. The issue gets more complex when you factor in the effect of throttle on chassis movement.

Here is more info for you to digest:
AutoCross Secrets - On FWD - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum
ok, im getting closer to understanding. something i still dont get is the inside vs outside thing. I think we are saying the opposite:

To clarify, based on the picture you drew which way is that car turning?
 

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Thread has been cleaned up a bit. PM me any additional concerns.
 

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ok, im getting closer to understanding. something i still dont get is the inside vs outside thing. I think we are saying the opposite:

To clarify, based on the picture you drew which way is that car turning?
In the picture I provided, the outside wheel is the large arrow...inside wheel is small arrow. This would be mid corner turning left (towards the small arrow). The car/chassis would be following inertia and rolling onto the outside right (large arrow) wheel.

mustclime said:
Next topic.....swaybars suck.

Have you ever though about how a swaybar( anti-roll bar) works? What are they good for? Have you ever thought "since the factory put a 25mm hollow bar on the front of my car, wouldn't my car handle better with a 27mm solid bar"?

Well, for the longest time I thought of swaybars(SB) as spring helpers. I thought that when you went into a turn, the swaybar(SB) being attached to the lca and the body helped hold up the car through the turn....WRONG!!!!

Think about what happens when you go through a turn......
1) the driver turns the wheel, the tires turn and bite, the car starts tochange direction...
2) As the car starts to change direction, weight shifts to the outside tires, the outside springs are overloaded and start to compress.
3) as the springs compresm the lower control arm starts to angle up.....the (SB) being attached to both lca's and the body is forced up on the outside side......
this is the important part!!!!
what happens on the inside suspension of the car???
4) the (SB) being nothing more than a "U" shaped rod/tube pulls up the inside lca because it "wants" to be flat not twisted.
think about that for a second.
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Now, if down force increases grip( like having huge wings on a F1 car), what does up force do to grip???? Well, It decreases grip.....
This is why some people think of (SB)'s as grip reducers. Why would car makers ever put such a stupid thing on a car, why not control body roll with spring rates......simple, who wants to dd a car that can run over an ant and have the driver feel every bone in its body crush.....OK, what should you do with this knowage? IMO, understand that big sways on the drive wheels are really dumb, Understand that you should use the non drive wheels to control body roll because they are doing the least work in a turn.

These are the reasons you wait till you have your tires, springs and dampers before you mess with the sways. (SB)s are for fine tuning the suspension not setting it up.
http://forums.clubep3.com/showthread.php?t=569763
 

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is there any updates on this if anybody is selling it yet. it looks very tempting
"4cryingoutloud" (a forum member) has had one for two or three weeks now, but hasn't graced us with a review as of yet... but they are for sale. I do know one thing, he now has a prominent rattle/clanking sound over large bumps in the back end and I am waiting for him to work that out before I get one :p
 

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A word of caution if you plan to put a RSB on your daily driven car (especially a car that doesn't come with one from the factory). Cars are meant to understeer for safety reasons...oversteer is acceptable on an Auto-x build and to a lesser extent on a track build. BUT, oversteer can be dangerous on a daily driven street car...basically anytime you are turning with sufficient speed and simultaneously lifting off the throttle (i.e. Interstate on ramp, turning into neighborhoods, etc).

Suspension, tires, and chassis bracing would be a much better approach for a street car.
 

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"4cryingoutloud" (a forum member) has had one for two or three weeks now, but hasn't graced us with a review as of yet... but they are for sale. I do know one thing, he now has a prominent rattle/clanking sound over large bumps in the back end and I am waiting for him to work that out before I get one :p
Does the RSB for the CRZ require cutting plastic around the mounting points like it does on the Fit?


Thread has been cleaned up a bit. PM me any additional concerns.
This thread looks much better after the colonic cleanse BTW!:p
 

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Does the RSB for the CRZ require cutting plastic around the mounting points like it does on the Fit?
I don't know what the install process entailed, unfortunately I wasn't there to help. I will ask him when I see him next, and find out. My understanding was it just bolted on and that was it... he suspects one of the mounting bolts is hitting the bottom of the spring, but hasn't verified it yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I don't know what the install process entailed, unfortunately I wasn't there to help. I will ask him when I see him next, and find out. My understanding was it just bolted on and that was it... he suspects one of the mounting bolts is hitting the bottom of the spring, but hasn't verified it yet.
That was a problem I've seen mentioned on the fit forum that the hex head bolts were rubbing on the springs and that progress has switched to rounded bolt heads to lessen this issue.

To blackandecker.....I know the Cusco RSB requires trimming the plastic pieces you mentioned. I'm not positive but I wouldn't be suprised if the progress RSB required trimming as well.
 

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A word of caution if you plan to put a RSB on your daily driven car (especially a car that doesn't come with one from the factory). Cars are meant to understeer for safety reasons...oversteer is acceptable on an Auto-x build and to a lesser extent on a track build. BUT, oversteer can be dangerous on a daily driven street car...basically anytime you are turning with sufficient speed and simultaneously lifting off the throttle (i.e. Interstate on ramp, turning into neighborhoods, etc).

Suspension, tires, and chassis bracing would be a much better approach for a street car.
I have the Cusco rsb on mine, and I use it as a dd. The reason I have it, is to get around those cones at autoX events faster though ;)

I have noticed that it tries to bite your head off, if you let off the throttle mid turn. I had the pleasure of experiencing this mid turn at 120km/h at a track day. :nervous: It took a few laps before I got used to the rsb, but now I love it.
 

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Yeah, I think that's the important thing...to learn how the car reacts at the limit in a controlled environment. I imagine it's still pretty sketchy in the wet though...
 

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Yeah, I think that's the important thing...to learn how the car reacts at the limit in a controlled environment. I imagine it's still pretty sketchy in the wet though...
So far I've done 5 races without the rsb and 1 race + 1 track day with. I actually didn't think it was any worse in the wet, as you don't push the turns as hard on limited grip. But then again that might just be me holding back :dunno:

I'm a bit curious as to how it will affect driving on snow though. Will do some late night parking lot driving once the first snow falls. I may end up removing it for the winter if it affects the car too much. Last season I found the car had just the right amount of oversteer on snow as stock.

It is really important to get to know your car in a controlled environment like you said though. I can't count how many times it has saved both me and my cars.
 

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(the internets are a wonderful place).
Yeah, I don't know about that...


EDIT by MOD Scotty.. Hilarious - but rated PG - might want to watch without the kids looking..
 

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Going to bring this thread from the dead.

I just installed the Progress RSB at lunch and it made a huge difference in body lean. I'm on stock springs, stock tires and this $145 piece of steel that takes 15 minutes to install is magic.

Btw, install calls for removing of springs - I bypassed this step.

Got it at CorSport - $145 shipped, 2 days between order and receipt. Mod bug satisfied for another year or two.
 
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