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Discussion Starter #21
The kind of speeds we were running when I remember you being in the group were good for warming up the car for harder driving, so I'd suggest not going faster than the "feel" of those runs even if you get upgraded brakes and tires for at least 2-3 miles before pushing more after getting back on the road.
You talking about before or after you passed me and joined the rest of the group? :wink2: I definitely felt like any faster than I was going would have been pushing the limits of the car too much. I feel a lot more familiar with the road than I did the first couple times, but you're right that more familiarity got me more comfortable.
They're only slightly larger discs, but my idea was to find a wrecked 2016 and get the whole rear suspension out of it--it's got a slightly wider track too.
oooh really? I wouldn't mind the wider track... I'll let you be the guinea pig though.
1. You can only go as fast as you're going to have to stop. Hello, Mr. Deer.
Or dog:

Definitely want better lighting before any night runs next year though.
As far as I'm aware there is no simple upgrade for the rear calipers/rotors. They also don't do much of the work.

I upgraded to DOT4 fluid, Hawk HPS pads, and stock sized powerslot rotors, great daily pads and good for about 15 minutes on a track before the pads overheat and they stopped stopping.

2nd step was adding the RSX-S calipers and upsized rotors in the front with Hawk HP+ pads all around. 20 minute track sessions result in zero drama. RSX-S calipers will fit under the stock 16" wheels, and are cheap from a salvage yard. Think mine were about $60 + rebuild. HP+ are a bit noisy when cold.

RSX-S calipers under stock 16s

The newer HPS 5.0 have almost as high of a temp range as the HP+ and are supposed to be quieter.
I thought the braking distribution was like 60/40 front/rear...?

The RSX BBK from Wilwood apparently fits under stock 16s... I think that's what I'm going to go with down the road. And DOT4 fluid.
 

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Brakes on the '16 did not seem to be an issue, it was the Bridgestone Ecopias all seasons and my intermittent onset of White Line Fever causing the chirping.

The 6 speed group had a nice accordion surprise stop on the way out to Gatlinburg Sunday that had a few wide eyes I imagine, but we all got appropriately woahed up.
 

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I thought the braking distribution was like 60/40 front/rear...?

The RSX BBK from Wilwood apparently fits under stock 16s... I think that's what I'm going to go with down the road. And DOT4 fluid.
Interesting read:
Stoptech brake bias white-paper

The Z has roughly a 60/40 static weight distribution, but under hard braking the weight transfer makes it more like 75/25. Stickier the tires, the more weight transfers.

Haven't had my 16s on in a bit, but from what I recall, and the picture in the link I posted above, I have doubts about a larger setup than the RSX-S fitting. If it were my budget, I'd want pictures to confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I saw a couple guys with the Wilwood RSX-S BBK who said they fit under stock wheels at the Dragon.

That white paper was interesting, and You're right about the weight transfer. I've definitely felt some rotation and lightening in the rear on hard cornering in the past, which is something I was really watching out for on the dragon. The new shocks seem to have removed that problem.
 

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So much no. :ionono:

I had to reregister here just to say, "no."

Dragon = 2nd gear 4,000-6,500 rpms. You might grab 3rd on a few straights, then immediately drop back down to 2nd for the upcoming corner. It's not truly necessary, but if we're chasing the fastest possible time, you should hit the rev limiter in 2nd a few times. You can drop down to 1st if you take a corner too cautiously and get caught flat-footed coming out of it. However, 90% of the dragon can be done in 2nd. (Moonshiner 28 is similar, but use 3rd.)

With the engine running in the top half of the rpm range, drivetrain drag is sufficient to handle a large part of the necessary speed modulation. Lift off the gas, and the car will begin to slow before you can get your foot to the brake. Use the brake to get that last little bit of stopping power. You want your tires chirping, not squealing. You do not need extreme engine braking, nor do you need to boil your brake fluid. Drive smooth. That bears repeating, DRIVE SMOOTH.

As for hardware, not much is required. The first two years I did the dragon trip, I ran stock brakes and pads. I had a problem once. It was on the Cherohala Skyway where speeds are much faster. The simple truth is, the CR-Z comes stock with respectable brakes. Don't believe me? Ask SuperStreet.

Right from Honda, the CR-Z's rotors and calipers are better than just about anything you've ever bolted onto your EK or EG hatchback. That and the aftermarket's already got things sorted out should you need anything bigger or with the ability to withstand more heat. Consider the CR-Z's curb weight, which hovers around the 2,680-pound range (about the same as a second-generation Integra), understand that the K-swap doesn't really change any of that, and all of a sudden its 10.3-inch (front) and 10.2-inch (rear) rotors (also about the same as that Integra), seem like all you'll need. Even better, the '16 CR-Z was updated with larger, 11.1-inch rotors all around.
Will an upgraded set of pads give you a little extra safety net should things get squirrely? Yes.

Will DOT4 fluid help prevent boil issues? Yes.

Will a bigger rotor help dissipate heat? Sure.

However, I'm not a fan of masking over poor driving technique with extra hardware. If you're boiling fluid, you're probably doing it wrong. If you're experiencing a great deal of fade, you're doing it wrong. Take the time to learn the car's stock limits before you go making hardware changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Dragon = 2nd gear 4,000-6,500 rpms. You might grab 3rd on a few straights, then immediately drop back down to 2nd for the upcoming corner. It's not truly necessary, but if we're chasing the fastest possible time, you should hit the rev limiter in 2nd a few times. You can drop down to 1st if you take a corner too cautiously and get caught flat-footed coming out of it. However, 90% of the dragon can be done in 2nd. (Moonshiner 28 is similar, but use 3rd.)

With the engine running in the top half of the rpm range, drivetrain drag is sufficient to handle a large part of the necessary speed modulation. Lift off the gas, and the car will begin to slow before you can get your foot to the brake. Use the brake to get that last little bit of stopping power. You want your tires chirping, not squealing. You do not need extreme engine braking, nor do you need to boil your brake fluid. Drive smooth. That bears repeating, DRIVE SMOOTH.

However, I'm not a fan of masking over poor driving technique with extra hardware. If you're boiling fluid, you're probably doing it wrong. If you're experiencing a great deal of fade, you're doing it wrong. Take the time to learn the car's stock limits before you go making hardware changes.
Now I'm getting confused... your first paragraph here pretty well describes how I was driving the dragon. I like to think that I'm a capable and skilled driver, but I'm always willing to admit there's room for improvement.

I wasn't riding the brakes, and I wasn't really slamming the brakes. I was braking similar to how I saw the other drivers braking, but driving a lot slower to account for the stock tires.

I'll agree about improving my technique, but I'm almost wondering now if I've got a pad dragging, with how bad the fade and smell were. I'll take a look for that before I start buying new hardware.
I had a problem once. It was on the Cherohala Skyway where speeds are much faster.
oddly enough, I had no issues over on the Cherohala, despite the higher speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Fediej, unfortunately my choices of "local" honda dealer are all about 1h15m away, in varying degrees of competence... Despite living 10 minutes from the plant where the civic and CRV are made... Plenty of honda small engine and motorcycle dealers nearby though.
 

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Maybe its because I learned stick in the mountains and thats where I drive 99 percent of the time, I do consider myself a VERY skilled driver and better than most but I do NOT consider myself an expert but what Varmint has said is what I was getting at, if you burn your brakes driving in the mountains with a stick your doing it wrong regardless of how you are driving or what you are driving
 

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Simple:

If you spend first, you will learn to drive last.


If others can and have done it, then there must still be some learning to do.

Go attend an HPDE day at a local track with full time, competent instruction. That's the best way to find out how little you really know.
Not meant as an insult.
I've been doing exactly that for a few years now. With four decades behind the wheel, half of that in severe winter road conditions on all surfaces and a variety of vehicle types, I still found out that I had loads to learn.
 
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