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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
Good ideas qwerty but I have 100 joysticks in stock so will probably just code the problem out.

Dpad is just buttons is it not? The analog joystick has proportional control.

The IMA Manual control test code currently uses 4.2% of the available PIC18F26K80 code space.. :)
 

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I like the joystick. It is a neat solution that would be easy to operate while driving.

Have you programmed in some safety features to cut out assist or regen if, say, the brake or clutch are operated while the MITM is in control? It isn't beyond the realms of possibility to have to brake and declutch suddenly while using it.

From a personal point of view I'd rather see the assist or regen on the dash. Once the MITM is in and working ok I'd be unlikely to want to have another screen fitted just to see how much assist or regen I have selected. Obviously if it is hard to achieve then so be it, but I'd imagine most users buying the final commercial product would want to be able to just use it as a consumer rather than as an engineer. Just my thoughts rather than a criticism.
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
No problems... All comments are welcome. (y)

My posted videos and prev posts contain info and ideas/thoughts on safety interlocks. ;)
Yes, it has been mentioned, they are needed, and will be incorporated as far as possible in due course as the firmware develops.
Presently I can launch it into orbit or through the garage wall at the flick of the joystick! :devilish:

In my earlier IMAC&C manual control device for the Insight G1 fifteen years ago it was hard wired into the brake and clutch ECM circuits to pick up those signals.
We are luckier in that we have the CAN bus, that will hopefully enable us to pick up the data without direct low level physical electrical connections.

Using the OEM gauge bars is likely not practicable as that will probably require intercepting other packets on a different bus and modifying them.
Basically another complete device required in a different physical location. :cry:

The little screen can be very neat and it doesn't have to be on the dash or installed all the time.

Certainly just using manual control would be possible, but you really need to be a modding/driving enthusiast to get the full benefit.
IMO It's definitely not a gadget for someone who just wants a daily driver. If you are performance buff or hypermiling enthusiast then great.
You are likely going to be intimately involved in the control if you have a manual override installed. The temptation to fiddle with that knob will be irresistible.

The OEM Honda system does a very good job in managing things for the average Joe, but the IMA manual control is not a mod for the average Joe IMHO..
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
Adding finesse, slopes and fine control.

I find typing these posts helps me think through issues and formulate plans to combat them,
so please excuse my incoherent rambling.
I usually immediately go off and write some code after posting while the ideas are fresh in the mind.

One obvious manual IMA control issue is the present hard switchover between assist/regen or vice versa etc.
Between what the ECM wants the IMA to do and what you want it to do instead!

I initially thought this was a mechanical joystick issue but it isn't really..
We need some slopes and time to change over from one mode to another.

Scenario.

Imagine the car ECM is busy commanding 40% regen say ~40A to charge the pack.
We engage the joystick, whack it hard over right and command 100% assist.

At present there is no gentle changeover between modes :oops:
The IMA will immediately discontinue regen and engage 100% assist.
It dramatically lurches from gentle slowing to aggressive accelerating...
There is an IMA control packet every 10ms on the IMACAN bus so change over can be as quick as that!

That's quite a shock for the drivetrain and your seat of the pants dyno.
Vice versa going from assist to regen. It lurches from accelerating to slowing.

Even if the car is not doing anything substantial when you release the joystick,
at present there is no gradual return to what it was doing before. So you see the issue. :unsure:

Of course if you are very gentle with the joystick you can emulate a slope up/down but when the joystick
reaches the inactive point and manual control disengages the car will then suddenly revert to what the car is wanting.
So being gentle with the joystick is only half the cure.

I'll need to change the joystick variables to targets the IMA is trying to achieve.
I'll add some adjustable ramps up and down in small steps as the IMA catches up to what you or the car wanted.

If you engage assist it will gently ramp down what the car was doing, before ramping up to what you want. Probably over a second or so.
Ditto when the joystick goes inactive it will gently ramp down from what you were doing and then back up to what the car is currently requesting.

Easy to say but a bit more tricky to code!o_O
 

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I might be teaching you to suck eggs, but part of what you are working to achieve is called "bumpless transfer" in control engineering lingo, so someone might have already done the coding legwork in a different project that you could borrow and modify.
 

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Good ideas qwerty but I have 100 joysticks in stock so will probably just code the problem out.

Dpad is just buttons is it not? The analog joystick has proportional control.

The IMA Manual control test code currently uses 4.2% of the available PIC18F26K80 code space.. :)
Ah true, can you make it coded so it ignores the reverse axis for a fraction of a second after letting go of a direction?

Edit: nevermind lol you worked it out and realised even more QA improvements in the posts afterward
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Slight change of direction to simplify the IMACAN device at the back and avoid running cables front to back etc. :unsure:

For this first prototype pcb version I'm going to use the OBDIIC&C to control the joystick function and complete safety checks etc.
Then I will pass a simple control packet on the FCAN line every 100ms or so to our dumb slave IMACAN gadget in the back.
If the slave in the back does not hear from the master in the front every 100ms it simply defaults back to OEM mode.

This frees up a lot of cpu time for our IMACAN device, and greatly reduces the component count, board size etc.

The IMACAN slave in the back will simply use a 4 x twisted pair RJ45 network connector/cable for integration into the IMA harness.

Hopefully this video explains it a bit.


This means the current lucky crop of CR-Z OBDIIC&C testers can just add the joystick to their OBDIIC&C and the IMACAN device in the back to get manual control! :cool:

Attached is the dumb slave in the back schematic minus all the bells and whistles.. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Not much to report as I lost a whole day when the sodding glove box latch broke and I had to jemmy it open, curse profusely, remove it all, then go and buy another one.
What a stupid design. :devilish: What's that grey slide handle/latch thingy in the glove box?

Luckily a local owner is breaking a damaged car and I got a glove box assembly and an IMA fan with a broken mounting. (Forgot to get the harness connector though! Doh)

I think I have fixed the 1 in 10 starts IMA Manual control ign start up miscommunication glitch, so that's much better. (y)
Still need to work on the swapping back and forth between OEM and manual or override modes. o_O

I think the car is getting confused that when it asks for regen and nothing happens because I am in assist manual mode it ramps up the regen request.
So when then when you finally release manual control you get a sudden big kick of regen, it then realises the MCM is listening now and dials it back down.
So the swap back and forth between OEM and Manual control needs handling delicately.
Need to study the packets a bit more. :unsure:

I did manage 65mpg (UK) for the 75 mile round trip without any errors or issues.
I was using the manual control for extra assist to get over hills, then gently regen down the other side.
It's all about optimising the electric/petrol ratio to get the maximum mpg.
i.e. When to use assist and when not. When to disable regen and when to allow it.
Driving an insight for all those years has helped in this delicate ballet duet of foot on throttle and finger on joystick.

Using sport mode and the 20kw assist on tap is also highly addictive....
 

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Discussion Starter #51
When/if the IMA manual control board becomes available I think the initial plan will be...
If the OBDIIC&C testers from the other thread want to get involved? (Hopefully they do ;))

I will send out complete modified OBDIIC&C devices with joysticks attached and the IMA Control modules to install in the rear harness..
The testers can return the earlier OBDIIC&C to me in the same box.

I might be nice now to have a few other testers, but new testers please be aware of the upfront costs/deposit.
A full built and tested OBDIIC&C with joystick and the IMA control board is likely to be around $600....

For the new early/adopters testers I do have a the full 6 months money back offer if you don't like or get on with the device etc.
Just send it back in good order and your money will be refunded -shipping.

There will be a legal liability disclaimer to sign with the IMA manual control device for obvious reasons.
If you launch your car through the garage wall, break your driveshafts or lunch your battery etc etc it's down to you.. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Been testing a few different ideas for the software today.
Some gave smoother control (y) , some didn't :oops:, and one gave intermittent IMA errors on the move the first I have had o_O.
It's easy to roll back to an earlier version so no dramas.

The simple schematic a few posts ago has been updated to correct a tiny glitch.
The pcb is being laid out as we speak but these things all take time.

I will need a full list of those who want a manual control pcb so I can gauge how many to order in the first batch.
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
I have now built five OBDIIC&C displays with the added manual control joysticks. (y)

I can write some beta code for these and do bench testing while waiting for the manual control pcb to be finished.

Basically they will do all the current OBDIIC&C for the CR-Z can do, and will have an extra screen/page for IMA control stuff and joystick testing/enabling.


63506


If you are interested in being a beta tester for manual control as per my previous posts then reply on here.
 

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I am Definitely interested but will need some detailed directions to install this and help with the Grid charger option. The Speed Bump is a 2013 CVT LI-ION car so I would need to know what if any changes would need to be made to make this all work. What is the total cost including a display as I have no Video input on my ICE and not sure if I want to hack the mirror for this use. Or is this a self contained unit with all options? What else would be needed for all your options? I am in USA. What would be the total cost for all options? Is there a way to make it all installable and if required uninstallable to take back to stock? I have not followed all your threads as closely as I should. All of your posts have gotten me very interested in these options. Will be my first modifications if i can find the money and if i feel I can make the changes required with my skills.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I am Definitely interested but will need some detailed directions to install this and help with the Grid charger option. The Speed Bump is a 2013 CVT LI-ION car so I would need to know what if any changes would need to be made to make this all work. What is the total cost including a display as I have no Video input on my ICE and not sure if I want to hack the mirror for this use. Or is this a self contained unit with all options? What else would be needed for all your options? I am in USA. What would be the total cost for all options? Is there a way to make it all installable and if required uninstallable to take back to stock? I have not followed all your threads as closely as I should. All of your posts have gotten me very interested in these options. Will be my first modifications if i can find the money and if i feel I can make the changes required with my skills.
Thanks for all the support. (y)

The most important thing as we all know is to read the threads. :) These are new mods and you need to fully understand what you are getting into.
I simply won't sell gadgets to people who haven't done the background reading because it becomes a support nightmare for me, and very frustrating for them.
I can tell if people have really read the threads from the questions posed. ;) These mods also require a moderate degree of technical competence.
If individuals are really bad at modding etc or not confident with wiring etc then they need to find someone capable of doing it for them.
Remember there are currently no user manuals for any of these gadgets, it's all in these threads and my many published YT videos.

The grid charger/discharger process is very well documented in that thread, and the YT videos give clear explanation of how to do it.
If people have specific questions about projects or gadgets etc of course I will answer them in the relevant threads.

However for now (Spdbump) you are probably out of the game, as all my work has been with Nimh pack manual cars.
I have no idea at the moment how much if any of my work is actually transferable to the Li-Ion models or the CVT version.

People should not attempt to use the grid charger/discharger setup on an OEM Lithium car.

I am hoping to pick up an OEM CR-Z Lion pack and possibly an ECM next week, so that will at least give me an idea on OBDIIC&C CAN signal and packet compatibility.
But I do not have an OEM Lithium CR-Z to test on. Any use of my devices on a Lithium car will be completely at the owners risk.

The costs for a full OBDIIC&C with joystick and manual control pcb from me will likely be ~$600.
Of course all subject to change depending on how much it costs me to get made etc.

Making gadgets for customers actually takes me away from research, so I prefer to not make stuff if at all possible.
 

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I figured being a LI-ION car and CVT would probably take me and The Speed Bump out of the running for this set of modifications. That is why I asked. Thank you for all your work on this and even though I cannot participate right now I am still reading the postings with great interest.

Thanks for all the support. (y)

The most important thing as we all know is to read the threads. :) These are new mods and you need to fully understand what you are getting into.
I simply won't sell gadgets to people who haven't done the background reading because it becomes a support nightmare for me, and very frustrating for them.
I can tell if people have really read the threads from the questions posed. ;) These mods also require a moderate degree of technical competence.
If individuals are really bad at modding etc or not confident with wiring etc then they need to find someone capable of doing it for them.
Remember there are currently no user manuals for any of these gadgets, it's all in these threads and my many published YT videos.

The grid charger/discharger process is very well documented in that thread, and the YT videos give clear explanation of how to do it.
If people have specific questions about projects or gadgets etc of course I will answer them in the relevant threads.

However for now (Spdbump) you are probably out of the game, as all my work has been with Nimh pack manual cars.
I have no idea at the moment how much if any of my work is actually transferable to the Li-Ion models or the CVT version.

People should not attempt to use the grid charger/discharger setup on an OEM Lithium car.

I am hoping to pick up an OEM CR-Z Lion pack and possibly an ECM next week, so that will at least give me an idea on OBDIIC&C CAN signal and packet compatibility.
But I do not have an OEM Lithium CR-Z to test on. Any use of my devices on a Lithium car will be completely at the owners risk.

The costs for a full OBDIIC&C with joystick and manual control pcb from me will likely be ~$600.
Of course all subject to change depending on how much it costs me to get made etc.

Making gadgets for customers actually takes me away from research, so I prefer to not make stuff if at all possible.
 

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break your driveshafts or lunch your battery etc etc it's down to you.. ;)
hmmm...I've got spares of those...

I'll have to talk to the wife and see if she's willing to part with some fun-money right now. otherwise, I'll have to wait until later in the dev't. I'm VERY interested in one of these boxes though.
 
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