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Discussion Starter #21
Good idea. Yes lots of ways of doing things.

All to be considered and researched in the months ahead which is why I need input from others as well. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Attached is a first look at an alpha IMACAN MITM schematic based on the work so far.
It's not finished and subject to change as things develop during testing. I will need PCB help by someone laying it out.

I previously developed a G1 Insight IMA boost/reduce device which increased or reduced any assist or regen the ECM
was requesting depending on the setting of two independent twiddle pots.
There was one pot for assist and one for regen. The mid position for the pots did not modify the signal at all. So you get OEM assist or regen levels.
Turning it up from the mid point magnified the signal, i.e. increased assist, turning it down reduced it. Ditto regen.

With the pots you could turn assist off entirely or make it max out at the drop of a hat. (Ditto regen)
The device only effected ECM requests, it did not command assist or regen on it's own.

We would still have the super boost assist/regen buttons which would operate independently as you have seen in the video.
Anyway I will ponder. Feel free to chip in with ideas.
 

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Nice work Peter. This has been a very interesting set of threads you have created and shared. Great stuff. Keep up the good work.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
OK the attached beta schematic dated 280221 has most of the main features for a V1.0 CR-Z MITM device included.
I'm no electronics schematic or Proteus expert so it needs tidying up and laying out for manufacture.
Any volunteers or suggestions? If you don't speak up now it won't be considered or included.

This beta has the ability to communicate on the FCAN bus as well as do all the IMACAN MITM BUS stuff.
It can listen for commands from the OBDIIC&C display or just watch routine OEM messages like TPS/SPEED etc on the FCAN..
This info can be used for safety interlocks or control as had been discussed. We will give our MITM device it's own unique FCAN ID.

I have given the module four simple push control buttons, two twiddle pots (assist/regen) and few traffic light status LEDs for now.

The module also has the ability to accept commands from a simple serial interface.
So we could have a bluetooth phone app or remote gadget later that outputs a simple serial data stream.

Getting it up and running in basic form should be fairly straight forward assuming we don't run into any significant issues. ;)
Like the OBDIIC&C display device the firmware would evolve over time as I work on it.

I would envisage it mounting near the driver somewhere in a commercial simple abs box.
The PCB will be sized to fit and mount in a cheap black/grey case.
Although someone on here with skills could perhaps do a 3d printed design for us ;)

The wiring would likely be no more complicated than a stereo install. Minimum 8 wires I think.

1) Power +12V
2) Gnd


3) IMACAN High from ECM
4) IMACAN Low from ECM

5) IMACAN High to IMA
6) IMACAN Low to IMA


7) FCAN High
8) FCAN Low



Finally for now we would probably have some sort of male/female pass thru connector so you can revert to OEM very quickly if it all goes pear shaped. :cry:
 

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I can’t help with your specific requests for help, as it is a bit outside my skill set, but if you want a local tester I’m happy to help out. When lockdown lifts I should be back to doing monthly trips across the Pennines and into North Wales. There are some great sections on the M62 between Brighouse and Rochdale that could really test the assist and regen functions well. With a mains reconditioned battery, and the usable capacity set back to max, it would be interesting to see how the car performs.

I'd be happy to buy all the components and build my own beta tester, if you are happy to provide the code?
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Thanks for the offer. I agree the M62 etc would really test the pack. :)

My thoughts.. :unsure:

The road map I see ahead is tweak the prototype schematic for the next week or so until i'm happy with it.
This allows others a chance to see the thread/design and comment/contribute if they wish.

Lay it out on a small footprint pcb using smd devices with the help of an experienced pcb design software user. (Say two weeks and some £££)
Get the device made and assembled in a small prototype run of perhaps ten or twenty boards. (More £££)

I will use three, one on the bench, one in the car and a spare.

This means there will potentially be seven or seventeen boards available for beta testers and early adopters.
They will not be free, the costs of programming/design/manufacture/postage etc will have to be fully covered.
But like I did for the OBDIIC&C testers I will probably offer a full money back (-postage) offer if it is returned in working order within say 6 months.
I have absolutely no idea how much it will cost at this stage, but let's say £250 each as a ballpark figure that could rise or fall.

The final schematic the boards are based on will be published and you could roll your own.
But unless you use one of the manufactured boards supplied by me I won't be able to offer technical support on your home brew version.
Any home built boards will have to be assembled to the exact same spec/circuit/parts etc as the manufactured one or the firmware will have no hope of working. .

The firmware may be offered FOC to individual beta testers in due course.

I did another 30 miles testing today on a delivery run and no issues to report save one startup temporary synchronisation error.

When the car is turned on the ECM and MCM don't start up at exactly the same speed.
Some toing and froing with IMACAN packets goes on until it all settles down after a few 100ms.
The firmware needs tweaking to account for these startup negotiations in due course.

Performance was exciting :devilish: and control was spot on around the Yorkshire Wolds. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I'm tinkering with the MITM schematic and negotiating with a potential PCB layout designer to get my Frankenstein creation built!
Once the final design is committed to the PCB manufacturing house I can then do some development on the firmware ready for when it arrives.

Worked fine today on multiple business related trips. (y)

Also doing some proper work supporting other UK IMA car owners with bad battery packs, so slower progress on all projects.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I now have a PCB design enthusiast onboard. We have worked together before. (y)

The manual control unit will probably have an RCA composite video output for connecting to a video enabled head unit backup camera/ video port or a small standalone e-bay screen.
It will display basic B&W text and IMACAN control/debug information as spare CPU cycles permit!!

A bit like this..

 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
I'm adding a cheap analog joystick to my CR-Z IMA manual control prototype and the video display tomorrow. (y)

I have also been looking through the data and tweaking the assist values, so want to try a higher setting to firmly establish the actual numerical limits. :devilish:

Here is a video explaining about the proposed joystick in general terms. Ignore the specifics regarding OBDIIC&C.
It's really just about the cheapness and nice size of these. I have hundreds in stock as well.


The analog joystick will probably have a similar control scheme to my Insight G1 IMAC&C.

Joystick untouched in the middle will be OEM pass thru mode. i.e. no effect

Left/Right will be proportional regen or assist as long as held.

i.e. Full left = 100% Regen, Full right = 100% Assist. (Variable in between these two limits)

Up/Down will be a stepped locked mode, so each press up or down will give a set level of assist or regen which holds until cancelled.

First press up 0% Assist. (This is like an override/neutral mode and will (should) stop the car regenerating or assisting) :cool:
Second press up 25% Assist.
Third press up 50% Assist.
Fourth press up 75% Assist.
Fifth press up 100% Assist.

Ditto when pressing down five steps for Regen.

This G1 Insight video gives the general idea of proposed CR-Z control operation.


The joystick also has a press switch function, that will probably be used to cancel the locked step modes.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Apologies for this video rotated and vertical!!!! Arrghh. :rolleyes:
You can get browser add ins to rotate YT videos to fix it. :cry:

Anyway it shows the analog joystick and video screen working in the car.
Lots still to do. The IMA manual control schematic is finished though so that's good news.

This prototype is running the inter PIC SPI bus at 1mhz for a modicum of stability in the face of the rats nest wiring.
I'm hoping to push the production version to at least 8mhz for 8x the throughput and lots more free cpu cycles.

This version is also calculating the packet check byte values on the fly :cool: rather than using pre-calculated fixed values like I did in my first test.
This means we can now change the packet values to whatever we like and it will work out the correct check byte to keep the car happy.
So the proportional control should work easily now once I work out the range of values for assist & regen the car will accept.

I need to do some road testing now to fine tune everything and add the code for the rest of the joystick functions.

 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Proportional joystick assist works... :cool:
Need to sort out the regen now..

Edit. Regen works as well.

Not much finesse yet LOL :oops: but assist and regen is proportional to the 10/20mm or so of joystick movement.
You need a steady hand to hold an intermediate level, or just whack it right over for warp 9 or max regen.

Tomorrow's plan is tidy it all up a bit and get the screen on the dash (I might well use a smaller one I have several variants)
Then some test drives as essential delivery trips permit. I'll wire up the WOT mode as well weather permitting.

Then it will be software tweaking while the pcb is laid out and manufactured.

I'll try and do a better video in the correct orientation when it's tidied up a bit!
 

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Would've loved you rev the engine up to 2000 RPMs and hit the max regen to see what happens, just out of curiosity. Great to see all this progress. Hopefully you bring it all over to the Lithium powered 'Z :)
 
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Discussion Starter #36
Would've loved you rev the engine up to 2000 RPMs and hit the max regen to see what happens, just out of curiosity.
I tried that, you basically end up with a powerful upto 15kva static generator!!!
You can balance engine load/throttle against the adjustable regen levels to output whatever electrical Kw you want....
Want to run your house off the car? You could with some ingenuity....

Great to see all this progress. Hopefully you bring it all over to the Lithium powered 'Z :)
Someone/people will need to supply me with the innards from a crashed Lithium CR-Z to progress that, or fund me to buy it $$$.
I need a complete Lithium IMA pack and ECM with harness connectors so I can make a bench test setup like I did for the Nimh car.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Background reading for forum nerds CR-Z enthusiasts. (y)

The attached PDF describes the development of the first IMA system for the early Honda Insight Hybrid.

It's basically exactly the same as the later CR-Z and all the other IMA cars, but the newer parts are smaller and better developed 2nd or 3rd generation.

It gives a very good overview of how it all works. Enjoy.....
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Correctly oriented & stable descriptive bench testing video.


My little $20 screen on the dash next to the OBDIIC&C..... :cool:

63464



If you are going to get a little screen get the type with the micro din plugs as linked.
You get a lovely long 3M+ lead and the micro plugs can fit through trim gaps and small holes a lot better than full size RCA phono plugs etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
IMA manual control 50 mile test drive report.

No errors or issues. (y)

I really like 2nd WOT gear torque steer with the PPP mode and the maxed out assist! :cool:

There are a few features that need addressing in due course..

1) The OEM assist/regen gauge does not show the joystick commanded assist or regen. :unsure:

This gauge bars information is likely in a CAN data packet sent to the gauge cluster direct from the ECM.
It might be on the IMACAN line (although I don't think the cluster is on that line) or more likely on the FCAN line, the cluster will have a unique CAN ID anyway.
We would need to intercept and modify that packet to force the cluster to display the assist/regen bars we want rather than what the ECM thinks is happening.
(I probably won't be bothering, people with this mod will have the little screen anyway, and we can show % levels etc on that.) OEM levels still work as normal.

2) You can push the SOC outside the normal car assist/regen cutback points using the joystick. :devilish:

Normally the ECM watches the SOC and cuts assist or regen depending on the SOC %.
At <40% SOC assist normally falls away and stops entirely at 30%. >75% SOC regen falls away and stops at 79%.

Obviously we are overriding that signal, so we can continue to draw power or charge until the BCM detects a hard limit like a cell empty drop out or over voltage.
It should then disable assist or regen and do a positive or negative recalibration. No real biggie, just something to be aware of.
It might actually be useful to exercise the battery more and push it out of it's comfort zone!

3) The joystick return to centre spring causes it to flip from assist to regen or vice versa if released suddenly. o_O

Basically it overcorrects and flys back slightly past the middle detent activating the opposite function.
I need to increase the centre dead zone or do something else cunning to prevent that.
If you release it slowly of course it's no issue.

4) I need to add the safety interlocks and things like only allow manual assist or regen when moving >10mph etc.

Enjoy..
 

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A Dpad instead of a thumb stick would solve your snapback issue but you said you got heaps of sticks already.

So for what you have maybe four quarter circle plastics that sit flush against the thumb stick shaft to add a touch of friction on each part of the shaft will reduce snapback. The only tricky part would be if it's one piece print the stick would need disassembly, and if it's just four pieces that clip on top of the cover then no disassembly needed but precision would be, and you'd want to grease the plastics to slow down wear.
 
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