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Discussion Starter #1
Hey! I'm trying to figure out the next step to take regarding my 2012 CRZ. It completely died on me about 2 weeks ago while I was driving. Everything shut down. Dealer service said it needed a DC-DC converter, which took about 2 weeks to ship and replace.

Went to the dealership to pick it up today, but the automatic door unlock wouldn't work and the car wouldn't start. Mechanic had to jump start the battery. The car was sluggish on the way home. When I slowed down from about 40 mph to turn onto my street, my car just died. The check charging system came on - same warning as before the repair. But this time the IMA system warning came on as well. So...back to the shop.

I've been reading a bit about the IMA and hybrid batteries on this forum. I've learned quite a bit, so thank you all! I'd like to know what to do next. I sure the dealer is going to say I need a new hybrid battery (which is probably past warranty at this point - 86,000 miles on my car). I'm thinking I should start with the 12V first and see how that goes. Then, I've read I can still drive the car with the IMA switched off, but does this also disable the battery? (I'm new to all this, so please bear with me!)

Thank you in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Found this post on another forum. Can anyone verify if this is true, please? And please say "yes, it is true"!

mod insert] The "new" extension info starts on page 4 near bottom of page, S.B. 06-057. Remember the original extension is also separately in force and is slightly different, S.B. 06-027. So read the section that applies to your current State of residence.[end]

So we in the US now have the same warranty extension they did in Canada. I was telling one of the service reps at the local dealership when Honda Canada issued their warranty extension and he saw me today and immediately told me they finally issued it here a few days ago. Here's what the Campaign Announcement says:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: May 12, 2006
To: All Honda Sales, Service & Parts Managers
From: American Honda Service Division
RE: Campaign Announcement

American Honda is announcing a product update to replace certain IMA components to help prevent IMA battery deterioration. We are also announcing a warranty extension for the IMA battery. Currently, this product update and warranty extension applies only to states where there is an abnormally high replacement rate for IMA batteries. These states include Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Nevada and Texas [mod edit; new bold emphasis. mod insert; The remainder of states are covered for the same time and mileage in the new extension as noted above, but using a slightly different approach]. In these states, the warranty for the IMA battery has been extended to 10 years of 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

The IMA battery control module(s) allows the battery to overcharge. Occasional overcharging is a desirable function, but too many frequently repeated cycles of overcharge can damage the IMA battery. This damage is the result of excessive current and heat build up. Unique local topographical and ambient conditions in affected states, combined with a driving cycle that typically keeps the IMA battery fully charged, creat this potential problem.

Repair Strategy
On 2000-01 Insights, the product update repair is to replace the battery condition monitor (BCM) and the motor control module (MCM). On 2002-04 Insights, the product update repair is to replace only the BCM. For product update repair and warranty information, refer to Service Bulletin 06-026, Product Update: Premature IMA Battery Module Failure.

Before beginning work on a vehicle for the product update, verify the elegibility by checking at least one of these items:

  • The customer has a notification letter.
  • The vehicle shown on your campaign responsibility report.
  • The vehicle is shown as eligible on a VIN status inquiry.
In addition, check for a punch mark above the 14th character of the engine compartment VIN. A punch mark in that location means the product update has already been done.

To verify elegibility for the IMA battery warranty extension, you must do a VIN status inquiry. For more information on the warranty extension, refer to Service Bulletin 06-027: Warranty Extension: IMA Battery.

Customer Notification
Customers will be sent a notification of the product update and warranty extension the week of May 22, 2006. Approximately 4,700 vehicles are affected by this update campaign.

Parts information
A small quantity of IMA repair kits (for 2000-01 Insights) and battery control monitors (for 2002-04 Insights) will be available the week of May 15, 2006, through normal channels.

Sincerely,
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Division
 

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99% it will be the 12v under bonnet battery.
No one has suffered an IMA battery failure that I am aware of.
Nearly all of us have suffered with a duff 12v. The car needs to go out often to let the IMA trickle charge the 12v as there is no alternator.
 

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If DC-DC converter was not working properly both the under hood and the IMA battery did not get charged. This forced the under hood to be at a low charge for a long time and in some cases they never recover. Two choices
1) load test under hood battery ( replace if failed)
2) Just replace the under hood battery

If DC to DC converter was not working for a while and was just replaced the dealer should have force charged the IMA battery and had it at least at 6 bars before returning car to you. They also should have charged under hood battery and load tested it.

If IMA motor has failed or is damaged then under hood and IMA Batteries will never charge and the car is unsafe. There is a whole long thread on turning off the IMA battery etc. (IMA Battery life and can it be switched off and only the engine used?)

Conclusion if IMA Battery has failed car is still drive-able just not any boost or power etc. If IMA motor or any other part of IMA system is damaged or failed then a major part of the car is gone and car is unsafe and unreliable due to under hood battery no longer getting charged. We have no alternator the DC to DC converter with IMA motor is our "alternator"

No member on this forum has ever replaced the IMA battery. Litz replaced one on his Insight!
 

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If true you may have a hard time talking the dealer into applying it. Contact Honda America and ask. This appears to mention the Insight not the CR-Z. The warranty I know about is as documented on the document I attached use it as leverage.

Found this post on another forum. Can anyone verify if this is true, please? And please say "yes, it is true"!

mod insert] The "new" extension info starts on page 4 near bottom of page, S.B. 06-057. Remember the original extension is also separately in force and is slightly different, S.B. 06-027. So read the section that applies to your current State of residence.[end]

So we in the US now have the same warranty extension they did in Canada. I was telling one of the service reps at the local dealership when Honda Canada issued their warranty extension and he saw me today and immediately told me they finally issued it here a few days ago. Here's what the Campaign Announcement says:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: May 12, 2006
To: All Honda Sales, Service & Parts Managers
From: American Honda Service Division
RE: Campaign Announcement

American Honda is announcing a product update to replace certain IMA components to help prevent IMA battery deterioration. We are also announcing a warranty extension for the IMA battery. Currently, this product update and warranty extension applies only to states where there is an abnormally high replacement rate for IMA batteries. These states include Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Nevada and Texas [mod edit; new bold emphasis. mod insert; The remainder of states are covered for the same time and mileage in the new extension as noted above, but using a slightly different approach]. In these states, the warranty for the IMA battery has been extended to 10 years of 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

The IMA battery control module(s) allows the battery to overcharge. Occasional overcharging is a desirable function, but too many frequently repeated cycles of overcharge can damage the IMA battery. This damage is the result of excessive current and heat build up. Unique local topographical and ambient conditions in affected states, combined with a driving cycle that typically keeps the IMA battery fully charged, creat this potential problem.

Repair Strategy
On 2000-01 Insights, the product update repair is to replace the battery condition monitor (BCM) and the motor control module (MCM). On 2002-04 Insights, the product update repair is to replace only the BCM. For product update repair and warranty information, refer to Service Bulletin 06-026, Product Update: Premature IMA Battery Module Failure.

Before beginning work on a vehicle for the product update, verify the elegibility by checking at least one of these items:

  • The customer has a notification letter.
  • The vehicle shown on your campaign responsibility report.
  • The vehicle is shown as eligible on a VIN status inquiry.
In addition, check for a punch mark above the 14th character of the engine compartment VIN. A punch mark in that location means the product update has already been done.

To verify elegibility for the IMA battery warranty extension, you must do a VIN status inquiry. For more information on the warranty extension, refer to Service Bulletin 06-027: Warranty Extension: IMA Battery.

Customer Notification
Customers will be sent a notification of the product update and warranty extension the week of May 22, 2006. Approximately 4,700 vehicles are affected by this update campaign.

Parts information
A small quantity of IMA repair kits (for 2000-01 Insights) and battery control monitors (for 2002-04 Insights) will be available the week of May 15, 2006, through normal channels.

Sincerely,
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Division
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you all for your replies! I really appreciate your feedback!

It wasn't the IMA battery or motor, thankfully. Here's what happened (entire story):

1. Car dies in driveway -- charging system and IMA system warning lights come on.
2. Dealership says its the DC-DC converter; takes 2 weeks to replace (part took that long to ship from Japan).
3. Pick up car -- It won't unlock or start; mechanic has to charge it. Runs sluggish all the way home.
4. Turning onto my road from a main road (45 to 0 mph) -- Car dies again -- I mean completely -- same warning (Charging and IMA) lights come on.
5. Back to dealer -- Code came up for IPU fan; replaced. They also said something about a fuse being blown; but this information is not shown on my receipt :unsure:. Battery at 2/3; had it replaced since it was in the shop.

So...my big question is...did I get ripped off with the converter? (Over $900.)

It's possible that the converter AND the fan were both malfunctioning. But I'm wondering if I paid for a repair that didn't actually fix my car. Could a IPU fan malfunction and a blown fuse cause my car to completely die?

I asked for the converter back but dealership said it was a core part and they had to send it back to Honda.

What do you think?
 

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Thank you all for your replies! I really appreciate your feedback!

It wasn't the IMA battery or motor, thankfully. Here's what happened (entire story):

1. Car dies in driveway -- charging system and IMA system warning lights come on.
2. Dealership says its the DC-DC converter; takes 2 weeks to replace (part took that long to ship from Japan).
3. Pick up car -- It won't unlock or start; mechanic has to charge it. Runs sluggish all the way home.
4. Turning onto my road from a main road (45 to 0 mph) -- Car dies again -- I mean completely -- same warning (Charging and IMA) lights come on.
5. Back to dealer -- Code came up for IPU fan; replaced. They also said something about a fuse being blown; but this information is not shown on my receipt :unsure:. Battery at 2/3; had it replaced since it was in the shop.

So...my big question is...did I get ripped off with the converter? (Over $900.)

It's possible that the converter AND the fan were both malfunctioning. But I'm wondering if I paid for a repair that didn't actually fix my car. Could a IPU fan malfunction and a blown fuse cause my car to completely die?

I asked for the converter back but dealership said it was a core part and they had to send it back to Honda.

What do you think?
Others here have had the fan die, and some have had DC-DC converter die but I am not remembering the symptoms. I take it none of it was covered by any warranty. We will never know. The car is fixed, the parts put in have a warranty and you have a new under hood battery( I presume the battery above is the Under hood not the IMA) . Just drive and enjoy the car. :)
 

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A lot of times it would just be the under-hood battery. There are CRZs on this forum with close to 300k miles with original dc - dc converter and IPU fan. Not sure if you have bad luck or the dealer misdiagnosed it. It can happen especially if certain dealers aren’t familiar with the IMA system and just think they found the problem. To determine if the dc-dc converter is working, you just need a voltmeter in your car which I do to monitor if it’s charging.

The converter keeps the voltage about 12.7-14.4V when the car is on. It’s a little different than conventional alternator on a gas car. I always look at the charging voltage and it fluctuates a bit.

The crz is finicky when that under-hood battery is old or doesn’t hold charge because it’s essential to keep the IMA system working properly.

Also, try driving longer distance or have some 70+MPH freeway speed. Driving locally doesn’t get to charge the hybrid/ under-hood battery.

Let us know if your car has more symptoms what else the dealer says ...
 

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Dealer will never admit they misdiagnosed or made a mistake. As I stated we will never know which of the three parts fixed issues and it did throw the fan code.
A lot of times it would just be the under-hood battery. There are CRZs on this forum with close to 300k miles with original dc - dc converter and IPU fan. Not sure if you have bad luck or the dealer misdiagnosed it. It can happen especially if certain dealers aren’t familiar with the IMA system and just think they found the problem. To determine if the dc-dc converter is working, you just need a voltmeter in your car which I do to monitor if it’s charging.

The converter keeps the voltage about 12.7-14.4V when the car is on. It’s a little different than conventional alternator on a gas car. I always look at the charging voltage and it fluctuates a bit.

The crz is finicky when that under-hood battery is old or doesn’t hold charge because it’s essential to keep the IMA system working properly.

Also, try driving longer distance or have some 70+mpg freeway speed. Driving locally doesn’t get to charge the hybrid/ under-hood battery.

Let us know if your car has more symptoms what else the dealer says ...
 

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I think you got ripped off!
I think the Honda dealer has not got a clue.
I think you should ask for your money back.
I think it was your 12v all along.
Shrug. :).
 

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I think you got ripped off!
I think the Honda dealer has not got a clue.
I think you should ask for your money back.
I think it was your 12v all along.
Shrug. :).
Explain the fan code then. I presume the Dc to Dc converter also threw a code not just the light. And we will never know and we should stop armchair quarterbacking her issue. It is fixed and that is all that matters.?
 

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Do we really know that the codes were read correctly? Honda technical staff are not interested in anything but cars being produced today in my opinion, they will flap about and replace anything that comes to mind. If I sat in an armchair with my oily overalls on and tools protruding my wife would be upset.
I just feel sorry for the poor lass forking out that amount of cash for.... what result...?? Who knows.
Goodnight.
 
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Ok, Jeffd,

Even if you are right and it was all misdiagnosed what would you have done in the same situation? Car is not drive-able you have no other car and you brought the car to a dealer as they would be the experts on this model and you know nothing about cars? Yes, all of us in this forum would gone out gotten a battery, changed that and then seen if that resolved the issue but if you are stranded what do you do?

Yes, some dealerships have no clue but any dealership should at minimum be able to read the codes follow the trouble shooting steps and order the right part. Sometimes failure of one part damages another part. Some codes if you just read the code points to two possible failures and the dealerships of course will choose the more expensive one. She stated under hood battery was 2/3 which means it was not failed just weak.

I have had many things done wrong by dealerships and I am pretty knowledgeable ( see my postings on this forum about the dealers I have dealt with) but eventually you need them and just have to move on with your life. You decide after each situation if you ever go back or you go back but are skeptical. There are not that many qualified places that can repair cars let alone this unique and low volume niche car.

It is great you sitting across the pond telling her the dealer may have been wrong. What is she supposed to do get a lawyer, fight with the dealer and spend more of her valuable time and money or as I suggested just drive the car knowing the parts replaced now have a warranty. There is right and just being practical.

Glad you can fix every issue on your car yourself but many of us don't have the space, skills, tools, time or knowledge with money to afford a rental while we slowly fix our car.

Do we really know that the codes were read correctly? Honda technical staff are not interested in anything but cars being produced today in my opinion, they will flap about and replace anything that comes to mind. If I sat in an armchair with my oily overalls on and tools protruding my wife would be upset.
I just feel sorry for the poor lass forking out that amount of cash for.... what result...?? Who knows.
Goodnight.
 

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Also, try driving longer distance or have some 70+mpg freeway speed. Driving locally doesn’t get to charge the hybrid/ under-hood battery.
70+mpg would be great, but I think you meant 70+ MPH.
 

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70+mpg would be great, but I think you meant 70+ MPH.
30 minutes at highway speed limit is what I recommend. I do mine weekly in Sport but it is more important the continuous driving time per owners manual and decal once a month. Time continuous driving is more important than speed or mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Oh, I know I got ripped off! And yes, many of us do, esp. women. Regardless, I still am looking for an answer that seems challenging to find...

Could the IPU fan malfunction blow a fuse which could lead to an IMA problem?

Of course I'm not going to take Honda to court. But I'd like to have a reasonable discussion with the dealer. To do that, I'd like to be better informed.

I realize the dealership won't admit a mistake, but legally can I see my repair records?

And thank you all for the input and advice! Part of my problem might have been that I rarely drive above 50 mph -- not by choice ;)
 

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As I have not had that fan fail I do not know but if the Backup fuse ( main fuse for IMA) ever blew all kinds of things were not working right and would cause IMA to basically be disconnected. When the under hood battery fails you get all kinds of lights IMA, Brakes etc as if car turns on every light on the car but does not have one for just the under hood battery.

If you really want to know answer to your question write a letter to Honda America include copies of all repair documents you were given where it tells you what they did. If you did not keep them or did not get them you are entitled to them. But this is based on my experience not any knowledge of any law.

Just drive the car at any speed for at least 30 minutes, an hour is better. Over 50 is not required.

Oh, I know I got ripped off! And yes, many of us do, esp. women. Regardless, I still am looking for an answer that seems challenging to find...

Could the IPU fan malfunction blow a fuse which could lead to an IMA problem?

Of course I'm not going to take Honda to court. But I'd like to have a reasonable discussion with the dealer. To do that, I'd like to be better informed.

I realize the dealership won't admit a mistake, but legally can I see my repair records?

And thank you all for the input and advice! Part of my problem might have been that I rarely drive above 50 mph -- not by choice ;)
 
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