Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 1164 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Chrysler recalls almost 442K Dodge Chargers for safety issue

American Honda has sent a recall and stop sale notice to dealerships for 1.7 million new and used vehicles from 2007 to 2015 with Takata air bags.
The notice sent to dealers on Jan. 30 warned them that they would be responsible for any claims stemming from selling an unrepaired, affected car.

Impacted vehicles include the 2007 to 2011 CR-V crossover, 2011 to 2015 CR-Z coupe, 2009 to 2013 Fit, 2013 to 2014 Fit EV, 2010 to 2014 Insight hybrid and the 2007 to 2014 Ridgeline.

Replacement parts will not be available until late summer.


Not sure I like the idea of driving a car with possibly faulty airbags until late this summer...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,955 Posts
.....

Not sure I like the idea of driving a car with possibly faulty airbags until late this summer...
Of course, you don't know if an airbag's "defective" until after it went off, recall or not.

This is why engineers hate explosive bolts- they can't be tested.

(I'm not ranting, this time. Give me a cookie.)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,567 Posts
Of course, you don't know if an airbag's "defective" until after it went off, recall or not.

This is why engineers hate explosive bolts- they can't be tested.

(I'm not ranting, this time. Give me a cookie.)
Dealer verified my car was included but they have no information as to when the parts will be available and until parts are available they will not provide a loaner. I do not feel comfortable about this at all and at the end of March I am moving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
if i'm not mistaken, cars susceptible to airbag deployment issues were older vehicles in areas of high moisture?

granted, this is by no means saying our cars are 100% safe given there are many variables. but i don't think there is any immediate danger as the cars listed in this recall are all late model, and no reports of failure have been reported thus far in these inflators (though that doesn't rule out failure completely)

2005-2012 Acura RL
2007-2011 Honda CR-V
2007-2016 Acura RDX (early production MY 2016 vehicles only)
2007-2014 Honda Ridgeline
2009-2014 Honda Fit
2009-2014 Acura TL
2010-2014 Honda FCX Clarity
2010-2014 Honda Insight
2010-2013 Acura ZDX
2011-2015 Honda CR-Z
2013-2016 Acura ILX (early production MY 2016 vehicles only)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
Dealer verified my car was included but they have no information as to when the parts will be available and until parts are available they will not provide a loaner. I do not feel comfortable about this at all and at the end of March I am moving.
"That said, the matter is so grave from a safety perspective that Toyota is taking the extreme step of disabling the passenger airbag entirely if a replacement is not available and putting a “Do Not Sit Here” decal in the car until a proper repair can be effected."

Shrapnel-Shooting Airbags Being Disabled, "Do Not Sit Here" Stickers Affixed to Dashboards –Â*News –Â*Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

"1. Under what circumstances will NHTSA allow air bag deactivation?

If the vehicle manufacturer does not make an ON-OFF switch available for a particular vehicle, NHTSA will authorize deactivation for the following reasons only:

A rear-facing infant restraint must be placed in the front seat of a vehicle because there is no back seat or the back seat is too small for the child restraint. (For the passenger air bag only.)

A child 12 years old or younger must ride in the front seat because the child has a condition that requires frequent medical monitoring in the front seat. (For the passenger air bag only,.)

An individual with a medical condition is safer if the frontal air bag is turned off. A written statement from a physician must accompany each request based on a medical condition unless the request is based on a medical condition for which the National Conference on Medical Indications for Air Bag Deactivation recommends deactivation. (For driver and/or passenger frontal air bag as appropriate.)

Drivers must sit within a few inches of the air bag (typically because they are of extremely small-stature, i.e., four feet, six inches or less). (For the driver frontal air bag only.)
Provided one of the above four conditions are met, the agency will continue to grant deactivation requests even if an aftermarket parts manufacturer makes an ON-OFF switch available for those vehicles.

[There should be one more option here now.]

2. How do I get authorization for air bag deactivation?

If you want air bag deactivation for any of the above reasons, describe the reason in a letter and send it to: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Attention: Air Bag Deactivation Requests (W-51), 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Washington, DC, 20590. Deactivation is not available for any other reasons. The request can also be faxed to 202-493-2833."

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/Air+Bags/Deactivation+FAQ

Given the circumstances I've thought about it, though I wouldn't ask NHTSA. Honda sold an unsafe vehicle with defective safety devices and are giving priority to vehicles in specific areas, as if they're unaware vehicles can be driven different places, like from low humidity areas to high humidity areas. Worst of all Takata knowingly continued selling the defective airbags for more than a decade and honda allegedly knew as well. They waited until at least two people died [Edit: four] and a couple dozen more injured.

It's pretty easy to do on the CR-Z for the driver's side airbag, there's an access panel for the plug on the bottom of the steering wheel, disconnect 12V, wait several minutes, pop off the panel with a flathead and disconnect the plug. Then black tape the light in the gauge cluster. SRS components are all distinct yellow electrical connectors and shrouding.

Edit: "Toyota has gotten permission from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to disable the airbags, which otherwise would be illegal."
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/31/autos/exploding-airbag-fix/


Edit 2: "UPDATE 2/3/2016, 6:00 p.m.: Honda dealerships in the U.S. have received letters from the carmaker stating that a new recall and stop-sale order applies to a long list of used Honda products: 2007–2011 CR-V, 2011–2015 CR-Z, 2009–2013 Fit, 2013–2014 Fit EV, 2010–2014 Insight, and 2007–2014 Ridgeline. According to Automotive News, if dealers don’t abide by the stop-sale order, they could be liable for any injuries that occur as a result of defective Takata airbags in these cars, which number some 1.7 million. The aforementioned vehicles have not yet been added to our list below because the news is not yet official."

http://blog.caranddriver.com/massive-takata-airbag-recall-everything-you-need-to-know-including-full-list-of-affected-vehicles/

Pessimist/realist: they'll probably secretly give priority of airbags to fix the brand new cars ready for sale at the stealerships before they fix many of ours.

Edit 3: For those who want to be angry this is the must read story on the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/07/business/airbag-maker-takata-is-said-to-have-conducted-secret-tests.html?_r=0

Some of the blame definitely lies with Honda, 'get it here as fast as possibly by any means in any condition or we'll fine you out the ***':

"And as automakers drove down costs using “just-in-time” production — which require parts to arrive at assembly plants only as they are required — Takata was under pressure to meet intense delivery schedules, they said. Workers were often told that if a client like Honda or Toyota was required to stop production at their plants because of a late Takata shipment, the parts supplier would be fined tens of thousands of dollars for every minute of lost production."
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,567 Posts
If it is only the passenger side then I am fine I never have a passenger. If it is the drivers side I will pursue deactivation. Does anyone know?

"That said, the matter is so grave from a safety perspective that Toyota is taking the extreme step of disabling the passenger airbag entirely if a replacement is not available and putting a “Do Not Sit Here” decal in the car until a proper repair can be effected."

Shrapnel-Shooting Airbags Being Disabled, "Do Not Sit Here" Stickers Affixed to Dashboards –Â*News –Â*Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

"1. Under what circumstances will NHTSA allow air bag deactivation?

If the vehicle manufacturer does not make an ON-OFF switch available for a particular vehicle, NHTSA will authorize deactivation for the following reasons only:

A rear-facing infant restraint must be placed in the front seat of a vehicle because there is no back seat or the back seat is too small for the child restraint. (For the passenger air bag only.)

A child 12 years old or younger must ride in the front seat because the child has a condition that requires frequent medical monitoring in the front seat. (For the passenger air bag only,.)

An individual with a medical condition is safer if the frontal air bag is turned off. A written statement from a physician must accompany each request based on a medical condition unless the request is based on a medical condition for which the National Conference on Medical Indications for Air Bag Deactivation recommends deactivation. (For driver and/or passenger frontal air bag as appropriate.)

Drivers must sit within a few inches of the air bag (typically because they are of extremely small-stature, i.e., four feet, six inches or less). (For the driver frontal air bag only.)
Provided one of the above four conditions are met, the agency will continue to grant deactivation requests even if an aftermarket parts manufacturer makes an ON-OFF switch available for those vehicles.

[There should be one more option here now.]

2. How do I get authorization for air bag deactivation?

If you want air bag deactivation for any of the above reasons, describe the reason in a letter and send it to: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Attention: Air Bag Deactivation Requests (W-51), 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Washington, DC, 20590. Deactivation is not available for any other reasons. The request can also be faxed to 202-493-2833."

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/Air+Bags/Deactivation+FAQ

Given the circumstances I've thought about it, though I wouldn't ask NHTSA. Honda sold an unsafe vehicle with defective safety devices and are giving priority to vehicles in specific areas, as if they're unaware vehicles can be driven different places, like from low humidity areas to high humidity areas. Worst of all Takata knowingly continued selling the defective airbags for more than a decade and honda allegedly knew as well. They waited until at least two people died [Edit: four] and a couple dozen more injured.

It's pretty easy to do on the CR-Z for the driver's side airbag, there's an access panel for the plug on the bottom of the steering wheel, disconnect 12V, wait several minutes, pop off the panel with a flathead and disconnect the plug. Then black tape the light in the gauge cluster. SRS components are all distinct yellow electrical connectors and shrouding.

Edit: "Toyota has gotten permission from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to disable the airbags, which otherwise would be illegal."
The fix for exploding airbags may be more deadly than the problem - Oct. 31, 2014


Edit 2: "UPDATE 2/3/2016, 6:00 p.m.: Honda dealerships in the U.S. have received letters from the carmaker stating that a new recall and stop-sale order applies to a long list of used Honda products: 2007–2011 CR-V, 2011–2015 CR-Z, 2009–2013 Fit, 2013–2014 Fit EV, 2010–2014 Insight, and 2007–2014 Ridgeline. According to Automotive News, if dealers don’t abide by the stop-sale order, they could be liable for any injuries that occur as a result of defective Takata airbags in these cars, which number some 1.7 million. The aforementioned vehicles have not yet been added to our list below because the news is not yet official."

Massive Takata Airbag Recall: Everything You Need to Know – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Pessimist/realist: they'll probably secretly give priority of airbags to fix the brand new cars ready for sale at the stealerships before they fix many of ours.

Edit 3: For those who want to be angry this is the must read story on the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/07/business/airbag-maker-takata-is-said-to-have-conducted-secret-tests.html?_r=0

Some of the blame definitely lies with Honda, 'get it here as fast as possibly by any means in any condition or we'll fine you out the ***':

"And as automakers drove down costs using “just-in-time” production — which require parts to arrive at assembly plants only as they are required — Takata was under pressure to meet intense delivery schedules, they said. Workers were often told that if a client like Honda or Toyota was required to stop production at their plants because of a late Takata shipment, the parts supplier would be fined tens of thousands of dollars for every minute of lost production."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
@spdbump it's only the drivers side, not the passenger side.

On another note I recently had to fix that exact part because it randomly decided to not work. It was a 500+ job that I hope to get reimbursed. Unfortunately I called Honda and they said my VIN is in the "could be" range so I won't know for sure till about a month according to a rep.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,567 Posts
Exactly what I did not want to hear :sadwavey:. Maybe I should push to have it disabled.

@spdbump it's only the drivers side, not the passenger side.

On another note I recently had to fix that exact part because it randomly decided to not work. It was a 500+ job that I hope to get reimbursed. Unfortunately I called Honda and they said my VIN is in the "could be" range so I won't know for sure till about a month according to a rep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
Takata should be dissolved, since so many automobile manufacturers relied on them to make their airbags and they screwed up so incredibly bad all their R&D, technology and manufacturing should released to all the manufacturers. Let the employees who didn't have a major hand in the mess up and cover up be consultants or full time employees at the manufacturers and have each automobile manufacturer make the airbags themselves. That way they can't put stipulations demanding that products be rushed to meet their assembly line deadlines cutting corners and jeopardizing quality control and ultimately safety nor can they point the finger at someone else. If I was CEO of Honda or any of the Japanese Keiretsu I would be pursuing this as a top priority. Cut out the inadequate incompetent deceitful middle man and take responsibility for the demands that helped compound the issue.

Airbags are about safety, not deadlines or loyalty, monopolies or profit. Or at least they should be.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,620 Posts
↑↑↑Yeah Koala, I don't see how Takeda will survive this one, but no matter how many car manufacturers were demanding to get their parts on time, it clearly looks like Takeda forgot the purpose of the part in the first place--for safety!

If that CYA mentality is happening at Honda too, there should be some heads rolling there as well. I'm not even going to start ranting about the government edict that makes it illegal to make airbags--or an on/off switch--just an option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Against all intelligent advice, I would remove or unplug the airbag. it is a standard Honda connection for the airbag, so you could go junkyard a civic steering wheel and hook that up until the parts become available for the recall.

In doing this you wouldn't have steering wheel controls and it wouldn't match styles, but it would work and be SAFE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
I checked the VIN for my CR-Z on the recall site today and here is the wording regarding the recall for those who are interested:

Year: 2011Make: HondaModel: CR-ZLast Updated: Feb 14, 2016
Number of Open Recalls: 1
Takata Driver Airbag Inflator
NHTSA RECALL NUMBER: 16V-061
MFR CAMPAIGN ID: JY1
CAMPAIGN DESCRIPTION: Takata Driver Airbag Inflator
RECALL DATE: 02/12/2016
RECALL STATUS: Recall INCOMPLETE. Remedy not yet available.
SUMMARY:
SPECIFICALLY, IN SOME VEHICLES, THE DRIVER'S FRONT AIRBAG INFLATOR COULD PRODUCE EXCESSIVE INTERNAL PRESSURE UPON DEPLOYMENT. IF AN AFFECTED AIRBAG DEPLOYS, THE INCREASED INTERNAL PRESSURE MAY CAUSE THE INFLATOR TO RUPTURE (BREAK APART) AND DEPLOY ABNORMALLY.

SAFETY RISK:
IN THE EVENT OF AN INFLATOR RUPTURE, METAL FRAGMENTS COULD PASS THROUGH THE AIRBAG CUSHION MATERIAL POSSIBLY CAUSING SERIOUS INJURY OR FATALITY TO YOU OR OTHERS IN THE VEHICLE. PAST RUPTURES LIKE THIS HAVE KILLED AND INJURED VEHICLE DRIVERS.

REMEDY:
THE REMEDY PARTS NEEDED TO CONDUCT DRIVER'S AIRBAG INFLATOR RECALLS WILL BECOME AVAILABLE IN SUMMER OF 2016. HONDA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS IN A N INITIAL LETTER WITH A SECOND LETTER BEING MAILED WHEN PARTS ARE AVAILABLE. PLEASE DISCUSS YOUR SPECIFIC NEEDS AND CONCERNS WITH YOUR DEALER, INCLUDING THE PROVISION OF, OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR, TEMPORARY ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION AS NECESSARY. OWNERS MAY CONTACT HONDA'S AUTOMOBILE CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-888-234-2138. HONDA'S CAMPAIGN NUMBER FOR THIS RECALL IS JY1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,955 Posts
RECALL STATUS: Recall INCOMPLETE. Remedy not yet available

Yeh, reassuring. You may be killed, good luck. We're still counting on your payments.

When this kind of crap reaches all the way up to Honda, we know the collapse is upon us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
This is what it says about the 'remedy'. Coming summer 2016 it seems..
---------------------------------------------------------------------
REMEDY:

THE REMEDY PARTS NEEDED TO CONDUCT DRIVER'S AIRBAG INFLATOR RECALLS WILL BECOME AVAILABLE IN SUMMER OF 2016. HONDA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS IN A N INITIAL LETTER WITH A SECOND LETTER BEING MAILED WHEN PARTS ARE AVAILABLE. PLEASE DISCUSS YOUR SPECIFIC NEEDS AND CONCERNS WITH YOUR DEALER, INCLUDING THE PROVISION OF, OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR, TEMPORARY ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION AS NECESSARY. OWNERS MAY CONTACT HONDA'S AUTOMOBILE CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-888-234-2138. HONDA'S CAMPAIGN NUMBER FOR THIS RECALL IS JY1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
I checked with Stokes Honda North here in SC, and confirmed that my 2011 base 6MT CR-Z is part of the recall. They weren't able to give me much info, but I did get them to schedule my fix, or at least create a floating "appointment" until they can actually get the part. I felt it was very important to get that in writing, so that I had proof I had tried to get it fixed, and was turned down (for the time being).

I also asked about a replacement vehicle, and was told that there were no loaners, only rentals. They let me drive off, after knowing my car was potentially unsafe.

When I got home, I called the number on the Honda Owner's Site (1-888-234-2138), and spoke with a rep named "Geneva". She again confirmed that my car is under the recall. I asked her if I should continue driving it, or not, and she replied, "Whichever makes you feel safer."

I then referenced the notice on the Honda Owners Site, which includes this language:

"Our Priorities

In addressing the Takata airbag inflator issue, our priorities are:

1) Informing all owners affected by these recalls and encouraging them to contact an authorized dealer to schedule a repair.
2) Increasing the supply of replacement airbag inflators in order to accelerate the pace of repairs.
3) Working with our dealers to ensure a positive experience for our customers throughout the entire process of scheduling and completing each repair – including making available a loaner or rental vehicle if there is any wait for the required repairs.
"

and this:

"Dealer Repair & Rental Policy, and Support
Authorized Honda and Acura dealerships will make appropriate repairs at no charge to the customer. If an owner requests alternative transportation while awaiting repair, while the repair is in progress, or if there is a delay in repairing an affected vehicle, Honda and Acura dealers are authorized to provide a free loaner or rental vehicle.

Honda has made changes to corporate policies concerning loaner and rental vehicles to ensure a seamless customer experience. For example, dealers may now loan vehicles to teenage drivers, who are generally prohibited from renting or borrowing vehicles due to insurance policies. Honda has also increased associated reimbursement rates to dealers, and empowered them to loan and rent vehicles to affected customers without seeking pre-approval from Honda.


"Geneva", the phone rep, then told me that in order to get a loaner car, my case would have to escalated to a "Rental Assistance Liason" officer. I asked to go ahead and escalate my case, and I am now waiting to hear back...

"John", my Case Manager, called back from American Honda. He stated that Honda will provide a loaner a no charge, and asked which dealership I'd like to work with. He then contacted the dealership, and the service department there (who previously told me there were no loaners) set me up for an appointment to pick up a rental (at no charge) tomorrow morning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
I checked the VIN for my CR-Z on the recall site today and here is the wording regarding the recall for those who are interested:
Thanks for sharing that with us, good looking out.

RECALL STATUS: Recall INCOMPLETE. Remedy not yet available

Yeh, reassuring. You may be killed, good luck. We're still counting on your payments.

When this kind of crap reaches all the way up to Honda, we know the collapse is upon us.
LOL! I could not have possibly said it better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,519 Posts
This whole thing leaves a worse and worse feeling with each additional bit of information. I've been a Honda owner for nearly 15 years, many of my family and friends have gone with Honda because of my fondness of the affordable utilitarian nature of Honda, I know this affects way more manufacturers than Honda but the way they're dealing with it is unacceptable.

"Some have compared driving with airbags made by Takata to driving with a loaded gun pointed at your chest." [buckshot to the face really]
Should you disable your recalled airbag? Takata says it will take years to replace them - WXYZ.com

"Some critics will say that turning off airbags puts drivers and passengers at risk of death. But that perpetuates a gross misunderstanding of the role of airbags. In fact, this crisis is an opportunity to educate the public about the realities of vehicle safety.

Front airbags never were intended to be the primary safety device for saving people's lives. They are a secondary defense.

Simply put, seat belts save lives. Front airbags reduce drivers' and passengers' injuries and lacerations.

Ideally, the two work together, with the seat belt positioning the individual so that the airbag can be most effective. But seat belts come first.

With Takata's flawed airbags putting people at risk, though, it's time to turn off that risk and go back to relying on seat belts as the acknowledged primary defense."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141208/OEM11/312089981/time-to-turn-off-threat-and-disable-recalled-airbags
 
1 - 20 of 1164 Posts
Top