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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
given these specs of the two electric motors on Honda's current Hybrids...

Civic Hybrid
15 KW motor
20hp / 76lb-ft
width - 70mm

CR-Z Hybrid
10 KW motor
13hp / 58lb-ft
width - TBA

i think it would be safe to say that if you swap the electric motor from the HCH to the CR-Z that would give it total specs of around:
CR-Z + 15 KW motor
129hp / 146lb-ft

versus the current numbers of:
CR-Z
122hp / 128lb-ft

i believe doing this alone should improve gas mileage with the added assist from the electric motor... the only thing slowing something like this swap down would be the ecu/electrical aspects...

(this is assuming the horsepower/torque come in around the same rpm)

thoughts??
 

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Interesting way of looking at it.. Battery Swap VS the traditional Engine swap. I never thought of that.

Think about this killer combination in terms of performance AND Fuel Economy:

If Honda paired the Engine from the Honda Aquatrax F12X or F15X, + the IMA from the Civic Hybrid:
F12X had 1.2L Turbo Inline 4 with 165HP, F15X has 200HP from 1.5L Inline 4..

F12X Hybrid: 185 HP @ ~6,000 RPM, 220 Tq @ ~1,500 RPM
F15X Hybrid: 220 HP @ ~6,000 RPM, 240 Tq @ ~1,500 RPM

Either of those combos would yield 60 MPG in Econ Mode thanks to small displacement and tons of low-end power, and would do 0-60 in 6-7 seconds in Sport Mode... I'm sure Honda doesn't do something like that because Turbo technology + Hybrid technology equals a greater chance of reliability issues (more stuff that can break), PLUS the specs on the Aquatrax motors are pretty crazy, I bet they cost a lot of money to build relative to the Fit's engine.

Actually, I bet the 1.2L Turbo and NO hybrid system would probably still perform better and get better MPG than the current setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
if the size specs are the same or similar i can't see why the bolt pattern would be that much different given the similar size in engine... actually, does anyone know the engine code for the 1.3L Insight engine??

the ecu part is whats stumping me too... hopefully Hondata is working on something already :D
 

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From owning a civic hybrid I'm not sure upping the assist motor is going to impact fuel economy. Assist from the electric motor is applied as an adder to the engines output. More electric juice = higher engine rev's. ICE plus assist motor work together, output determined by the cars ECU. I assume if you gave a higher output electric motor the engine would still operate as usual. I've always noted the more white bars of assist power I get the higher the engine revs and the further the fuel economy meter drops. Using more juice costs costs more fuel.

I'd love to see someone take a crack at this idea but I think it would involve working with the ECU to fool it into thinking you need less power from the engine.
 

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I believe much of that engine speed vs. electric motor output will be tunable in the future with aftermarket tuners stepping in. Who knows.. the possibility of raising the overall output of the current CR-Zs electric motor through ecu tuning seems feasible.
 

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I believe much of that engine speed vs. electric motor output will be tunable in the future with aftermarket tuners stepping in. Who knows.. the possibility of raising the overall output of the current CR-Zs electric motor through ecu tuning seems feasible.
The tuning part I believe is easy, the capacity of the electric motor might be the handicap. So swaping over a higher capcity unit will make easier to give it more power for a longer duration will make the swap worth it.
 

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I agree with the HCH electric swap theory but even if the bolt pattern matches, what about the added weight to the crank? Would this drop Hp value before adding to the overall output?

Just to add some fuel to the burning question of mods, I say supercharge with the larger electric motor. Hondata and AEM are undoubtedly already working with the ECU. The higher output electric should offset the low RPM lag JR systems had with other Honda engines. If this is the same 1.5l used in the Fit/Jazz you could purchase a supercharger right away. I believe the Skunk2/JR merge (Kraftworks) have one on the market now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I agree with the HCH electric swap theory but even if the bolt pattern matches, what about the added weight to the crank? Would this drop Hp value before adding to the overall output?
if that is the case by adding a bigger electric motor the weight would negate the power gained... since it's off add the lightest flywheel you can find and that should easily balance it back out... in theory of course...
Just to add some fuel to the burning question of mods, I say supercharge with the larger electric motor. Hondata and AEM are undoubtedly already working with the ECU. The higher output electric should offset the low RPM lag JR systems had with other Honda engines. If this is the same 1.5l used in the Fit/Jazz you could purchase a supercharger right away. I believe the Skunk2/JR merge (Kraftworks) have one on the market now.
Spoon has already modified the engine & ECU somehow and managed to get the electric motor to respond better to those modifications... read more here http://www.crzforum.com/forum/pictures-videos/331-spoon-cr-z-spoon-cr-z-pictures.html

it's a tweaked version of the L15 from the 2009+ Honda Fit or 2nd generation (not sure what Jazz has exactly)... the kits that are out, are for the 1st generation Fit/Jazz... and even if it was a direct bolt-on, Honda literally had to modify the top of the engine and intake manifold to clear the low-slung hood of the CR-Z... basically the kit might fit the engine but the hood won't close after it's on... trust me i thought of this already haha...
 

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It is unlikely that these types of "tweaks" can yield the desired results w/o a motivated computer geek, electromechanical engineer and stolen source codes.

The computers will be really unhappy when they tell the car to do X and the car does X + Y.

On the other hand, electrical and hybrid vehicles are going to be the next performance monsters.

The sky is the limit w/ an electic motor and the proper drive circuitry.
 

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If you could swap over the electric motor from the HCH you would still have the same output as if you kept the crz's motor untill you change the IMA controller. You might even have less output. The controller in the HCH has to be putting out higher amperage to develop that additional power. Might also just be the tune in the controller if they're indeed the same controller. Either way you have to get more amperage to the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The electric motor figures can't just be tacked onto the engine's/crz's figures. When added to an engine both are slightly reduced in output, which is why the figures don't add up.
i agree... but since the figures we get from Honda are the adjusted figures for engine + IMA, i simply just added the extra hp/tq peak numbers to those numbers which makes sense to me... unless you have a better idea of adding them up?? :popcorn:


btw, this thread was made b4 the CR-Z was released anywhere so anything that sounds ignorant or wrong probably is :rolleyes:
 
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