Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums banner
21 - 40 of 40 Posts

· Registered
2013 Honda CR-Z w/ HPD supercharger
Joined
·
516 Posts
A big benefit on a boosted car like that is he can run E85 and get all the benefits and safety of high octane fuel but the price costs the same as running cheap regular fuel. So it's "only" 10hp but it's actually also a huge increase in margin of safety for the engine and a lot lighter on the wallet.
I mean I had to pay for a ton of extra stuff. Fuel pump, fuel lines, injectors, a whole extra tune and more.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I mean I had to pay for a ton of extra stuff. Fuel pump, fuel lines, injectors, a whole extra tune and more.
Well, you didn't need to but from what I remember reading you were trying to get as much power as possible from your car. So injectors, tune etc is a requirement anyway. The fuel lines and pump probably did not need to be changed.
 

· Registered
2013 Honda CR-Z w/ HPD supercharger
Joined
·
516 Posts
Well, you didn't need to but from what I remember reading you were trying to get as much power as possible from your car. So injectors, tune etc is a requirement anyway. The fuel lines and pump probably did not need to be changed.
Fuel pump and injectors had to go at the very least. Ethanol is far less efficient in terms of energy compared to regular pump gas. Hence E85 burns a lot faster than normal fuel. But it allows you to be far more aggressive with boost and ignition timing because it burns so much slower. That’s also why it can take quite a bit of time to start in cold temperatures which I have experienced a couple times. There’s no way a stock fuel pump and injector setup could keep up with the demand and not lean out and blow stuff up.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I got my Flashpro set up and started screwing with it yesterday. It doesn't look like the CR-Z Flashpro has Ethanol content support WTF?! I had this same issue with my EP3 where I had to run an RSX calibration to get ethanol support. I will investigate more and then contact Hondata.
 

· Registered
2014 CR-Z, Base, CVT
Joined
·
871 Posts
Ethanol is ethanol, if it were bad then 10% would be enough to cause problems.
Not quite. Concentration does matter, in fact that's how different octane fuels are made. Some chemical reactions slow down significantly with lower concentrations, or may not even occur at all. This is exactly why I have so many different concentartions of isopropanol on hand, so I can select the appropriate one to clean something while mimimizing the risk of damage.

ignore what the engineers who made it have stated.
You have to keep in mind that lots of warnings on products are not actually placed there by the engineers, but by the PR or legal departments to cover their ass. Your phone likely says that you should only use its genuine charger and cable, when there's no problem whatsoever using 3rd party chargers. But if you use some garbage charger and it does fry your phone, the manufacturer can point to the manual and put the blame on you for using a 3rd party charger, so they're not liable for the damage caused to your device. That doesn't mean that warning are meaningless or that they can all be ignored, but you shouldn't take them at face value either.


That’s also why it can take quite a bit of time to start in cold temperatures which I have experienced a couple times.
AFAIK that's the main reason why 85% ethanol is used instead of 100%. 100% ethanol would have a very hard time starting a cold engine, so the 15% gasoline helps in that situation.



A few weeks ago a friend of mine put E85 in his 2020 Civic by accident. Making matters worse, his tank was nearly empty before he put e85 in it. He says that the car ran fien, but the dash lit up like a christmas tree. He got warnings for TPMS, Collision Avoidance, VSA, Hill Start Assist, ABS, etc. When he filled it back up with E10, they all went away.
Speedometer Odometer Car Vehicle Motor vehicle


From what I've heard, the issue with ethanol is rubber and plastic, as well as corrosion. There may be issues with the EVAP system as well. E10 is fine because it has additives which prevent issues, but E85 needs fuel components . designed to handle the higher ethanol content. Also, I think running e85 on a non flex-fuel vehicle is technically illegal, althought I doubt it matters, it's not like they're gonna pull you over and dip your fuel tanks.

I wouldn't do it. Besides, you get worse MPG with e85 anyways.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Most everything made in the last 20 years is rated for biofuel aka E85. Line degradation etc is a risk with early 90s or older American made vehicles mostly. Japanese vehicles made since the 90s are suited to it as long as there is some form of tuning done to make the engine run right.

It has 34% less energy density, but vehicles generally get 26% less MPG (not 34% less) because ethanol burns more completely i.e. less unburnt fuel goes out the tailpipe. The flame front burns longer because of the higher volume of fuel so it chases the piston further down the stroke increasing torque (aka increasing volumetric efficiency). Also because of the larger volume of fuel being sprayed, the intake charged is cooled about 30% lower than gasoline further increasing potential HP, reducing knock, reducing engine temperature, reducing exhaust temperature, etc.

Yes MPG is worse but that's not the whole story.
-More HP than Premium fuel but cheaper $/mile even accounting for MPG hit
-Better for the environment, less organic compounds like benzene
-40% less CO2 emissions as compared to gasoline
-More torque at all RPMs and all situations
-Far reduced chance of knock
-Support energy independence

Just a few reasons to use it.

@MrFastFox666 modern cars will throw every light when the CEL comes on for a single code. It means nothing other than the car probably threw a "Engine too Lean" code because it was...too lean.
 

· Registered
2014 CR-Z, Base, CVT
Joined
·
871 Posts
I dunno, I'm with SpdBump on this one. It's your car, and you can do what you want with it. Plus, it's not worth nothing that your other cars have been running on e85 for thousands and thousands of miles trouble-free. It very well could be that the risks of e85 on a non flex-fuel vehicle are blown out of proportion. But I still stand by what I said: Don't take warnings at face value, but don't ignore them either.

It's also very true that e85 is beneficial for the planet, and may save you some cash too. But the way I'm saving money and energy is by using my scooter when possible. Driving it as fast as it'll go, I can go about 20 miles with 1 KWh, so $0.10 worth of electricity (which doesn't cost me anything directly since utilities are covered by my landlord). If I go slower, I can get close to 40 miles with the same $0.10 of electricity. Driving my CR-Z cautiously, those same 20 miles take a little over half a gallon, so about $1.50 cents. Also, a small ~210lb vehicle will cause waaay less damage and wear to a street than a ~2900lb vehicle. Streets are very expensive and dump tons of CO2 emissions when they're built and maintained. I'm not condeming driving or anything, just pointing out that there's other ways to save the planet and your wallet. In my case, using my scooter more often will cut back my emissions and spending more than using e85 could ever hope to. The same won't be true for everyone.

That's just my 2 cents on it. Even when I was running e15 for a little while, there was always that tiny spec of doubt in the back of my head. What if it does end up causing damage? What if XYZ happens? For me, the peace of mind of using regular e10 outweighs the advantages of e85. Plus, I don't want to do any engine work on my car, at least not right now.

All I can say to you is good luck. I hope you can get everything running smoothly.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
@MrFastFox666 two things firstly yes obviously if I have driven 100,000+ miles on E85 then I already have heeded all of the warnings, am aware of the issues, and have done my research. You seem to imply that I am flying by the seat of my pants but in fact I am very experienced in this type of thing and maybe it's you that could learn something from me ;)

Also I have two electric scooters one is actually a moped that I can sit on and go on longer trips and I charge them with solar panels so I'm actually more green than you! Oh and I'm converting a ICE vehicle to EV and restoring a 40 year old EV so again I'm more green than you! :p

This is all in jest I am just ribbing you a little bit for talking down to me :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,262 Posts
That is a bummer Hondata doesn't have the flex fuel option on the CR-Z platform. Pester the heck out of them, they might add it. They have the code base for most of the other FlashPro applications.

I do find it annoying they don't have a shared feature base. Like no lift shift. It is there for the DBW Civic SI but not the DBW TSX. Is it there on the CR-Z?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
No option for no-lift-shift that I can see either. At this point I'm thinking I should have saved the $300 and got a KTuner.
Do you even manual, Bro? Next thing you'll be crying because you can't set it up to Auto rev match either.😉
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
Where does it say in the manual that CR-Z doesn't get Flex Fuel?
I have no idea and that's not what I was talking about anyways. I was talking about no-lift shifting and auto rev matching and how if you have those features why bother with a manual transmission at all. But since I had to explain the joke, it's no longer funny.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I have no idea and that's not what I was talking about anyways. I was talking about no-lift shifting and auto rev matching and how if you have those features why bother with a manual transmission at all. But since I had to explain the joke, it's no longer funny.
Oh lol you meant manual not manual, I see. Yeah I don't care about those features either was just answering his question.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I heard that if KTuner gets enough people interested they will add flex fuel to CR-Z! KTuner is $300 cheaper than FlashPro and does everything the same or better! It also has a cool dash gaugepod thingy that's pretty frickin cool.

If you want E85 Flex Fuel or are interested in a KTuner please post in this thread it might get added!

Vehicle Motor vehicle Car Steering part Gear shift
 

· Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Just wanted to update the thread so far with my E85 experience. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any flex-fuel support, neither KTuner nor Flashpro support it. KTuner claims they will add it if enough people ask in this thread: E85 Flex Fuel Please! - KTuner.com So please add a comment if you are remotely interested in Flex Fuel (ie the ECU takes a signal from an ethanol sensor and adjusts the fuel map automatically on-the-fly).

So far I have just run two tune files, one for E70 which is the most common in my area and one for 87 octane gas. Mostly for the past months I have driven on E70 exclusively.

My MPG dropped to 28-30 if I drive relaxed or 24-26 if I drive more spirited. I was getting 38/32ish before on normal gasoline. I'm thinking with a little more tuning I could get better MPG especially on the highway but I haven't put a ton of time into tuning lately. The bump in power and smoothness especially at higher RPMs is totally worth the drop in MPG IMO. What other mod can you drop .5 seconds from the 0-60 by just filling up the fuel tank?

Otherwise the car runs great. Cold starts are no problem as long as you add 10-20% more fuel on the temperature compensation tables.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Wiosh they offered flex fuel, oem wideband, and oem boost control via oem electronic wastegate actuator. Allow us to copy and paste things from one vehicles map to another. Also ability to say open up a stock ge8 map and paste it into crz ecu while maintaining the crz ima. Same thing take the boostvtables/tuning from a 1.5l si turbo and put into crz ecu. O2 sensor calibration from a car that runs the 5 wire oem ntk wideband and input it into stock ecu with a controller board to handle the heater.
So much more they could have done. So much more they can do.
Hell if they paid @PeterPerkins enough money they could put k tuner or flash oro on the fcan and imacan lines and probably flash the stock mcm.
They really shot themselves in the foot not offering to remotely be interested in the hybrid tuning part. Also as well as only doing bare minimum for our cars.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top