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Discussion Starter #1
Recently I found out that a gas station near me sells E15 fuel. At least in the U.S, regular gasoline is E10, meaning it has up to 10% ethanol. E15 has, you guessed it, up to 15%, and it is a bit cheaper. It also burns cleaner than E10, supposedly.

I wanted to know your thoughts and experience with E15. Is it really worth it? Can it damage the car?

In theory, the car should have a bit more power and a bit less fuel economy with E15, but I haven't noticed a difference. I filled up with E15 for the first time a few days ago.
 

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From what I read that can damage the car since car was built for 10% maximum.



 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting. I wasn't really able to find anything other than one forum post where a guy said that E15 could cause pitting on intake valves. Someone else said that it can cause lower mpg, which would cancel out its lower cost. I have driven very little, but so far I haven't noticed any decrease in mpg.
 

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I personally would not chance it and would stay far away from E85. Supposely it causes massive corrosion but I could not find a definitive article from a good source.

Owners manual for the CR-Z says no more than 10% Ethanol.
"Some gasoline today is blended with oxygenates such as ethanol. Your vehicle is designed to operate on oxygenated gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol by volume." From Page 216 in my 2013 CR-Z owners manual in the grey box to the right under Notice.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah e85 is a definite no since the 'Z isn't flex fuel. It's kinda weird that it isn't, tho, since it's supposed to be this green eco friendly sports car. Many Ford and GM vehicles are flex fuel, even giant 18 mpg SUVs, so why wouldn't Honda's tiny hybrid?
 

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Per owners manual up to 10% ethanol. I would not if it was me put the 15% in the car. I plan to keep The Speed Bump 10+ years and right now can't afford to replace the car.

Your car ,your choices, your money.
 

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The corrosion claims are inflated wildly. It really isn't as bad as the stories suggest.
There are e85 specific fuel components however.

The real issue here is the energy contained in ethanol v gasoline. It is somewhere around 30% less energy so you need 30% more fuel to make the same hp.

If you have 15% ethanol/ 85% Gas, then you would theoretically have 95% the energy of 100% Gas.

An increase of 5% in ltft and stft might be too far outside of the stock ecus fuel trim range.

The recommendation to stay 10% or less may be more to maintain correct afrs
 

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Yeah e85 is a definite no since the 'Z isn't flex fuel. It's kinda weird that it isn't, tho, since it's supposed to be this green eco friendly sports car. Many Ford and GM vehicles are flex fuel, even giant 18 mpg SUVs, so why wouldn't Honda's tiny hybrid?
Because flex-fuel sucks. My old roommate had a flex-fuel Ford Ranger. The fuel mileage on e85 was over 5mpgs less than 87 octane e10 and every other tank he had to fill with regular to keep the truck running smooth. Just an example, maybe they all aren't that bad but still.
 

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Any added Corrosion is bad. Not to mention some of the seals are not designed for high ethanol fuels. If a Car manufacturer went to the expense of putting a notice in the owners manual to not use more than 10% ethanol and they designed the car then I will go with their instructions rather than some random person from the Internet.

We are paying farmers a lot of money to turn corn into Ethanol for fuel which takes corn out of the food supply. Yes, I agree we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels but I think we should use something else to generate the ethanol needed for that purpose.

Flex fuel cars can detect how much ethanol is in the fuel and adjust accordingly. Our CR-Zs were not built with that technology and remember a CR-Z is an economy car.

The corrosion claims are inflated wildly. It really isn't as bad as the stories suggest.
There are e85 specific fuel components however.

The real issue here is the energy contained in ethanol v gasoline. It is somewhere around 30% less energy so you need 30% more fuel to make the same hp.

If you have 15% ethanol/ 85% Gas, then you would theoretically have 95% the energy of 100% Gas.

An increase of 5% in ltft and stft might be too far outside of the stock ecus fuel trim range.

The recommendation to stay 10% or less may be more to maintain correct afrs
 

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Any added Corrosion is bad. Not to mention some of the seals are not designed for high ethanol fuels. If a Car manufacturer went to the expense of putting a notice in the owners manual to not use more than 10% ethanol and they designed the car then I will go with their instructions rather than some random person from the Internet.

We are paying farmers a lot of money to turn corn into Ethanol for fuel which takes corn out of the food supply. Yes, I agree we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels but I think we should use something else to generate the ethanol needed for that purpose.

Flex fuel cars can detect how much ethanol is in the fuel and adjust accordingly. Our CR-Zs were not built with that technology and remember a CR-Z is an economy car.
Aren't you just a random person on the Internet?
Read my post, the issue with ethanol is fuelling primarily.

I can explain more if you like.

Fuel lines and fuel pumps are ethanol safe or they aren't and even though there are different hose ratings but most are 15% and up, manufacturers always engineer a margin of error into products so don't see then need to get so pissy over 5% content.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
...a Car manufacturer went to the expense of putting a notice in the owners manual to not use more than 10% ethanol...
Many warnings are primarily to cover their asses. For example, many phone manufacturers say to not use any charger other than the one included with the device. This doesn't necessarily mean that using a 3rd party charger is bad, but in case you use a really crappy low quality charger that does kill your device, the manufacturer won't be liable because you didn't follow their warning.
We are paying farmers a lot of money to turn corn into Ethanol for fuel which takes corn out of the food supply. Yes, I agree we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels but I think we should use something else to generate the ethanol needed for that purpose.
That is true, and that is a real issue. However, E10 still contains ethanol, so its not like im not using ethanol with E10. I think that imposing regulations on how much corn can be used for bioethanols would be a viable solution, at least temporarily.
Fuel lines and fuel pumps are ethanol safe or they aren't and even though there are different hose ratings but most are 15% and up, manufacturers always engineer a margin of error into products so don't see then need to get so pissy over 5% content.
As far as I know, the reason that E10 can be used in older cars, even those built before ethanol was added to fuels, is because E10 has additives which prevent corrosion. Without them, many car's fuel systems would be destroyed by now.
Because flex-fuel sucks. My old roommate had a flex-fuel Ford Ranger. The fuel mileage on e85 was over 5mpgs less than 87 octane e10 and every other tank he had to fill with regular to keep the truck running smooth. Just an example, maybe they all aren't that bad but still.
E85 has less energy than the same volume of E10, so you need to burn more of it. That's why you get less mileage with E85. However, I have heard that E85 is used in highly tuned cars because it produces more power. I imagine that the stoichiometric ratio of e85 is lower than e10 by enough that you can make more power even though it is less energy-dense. Don't quote me on that, though, it's just a guess.
 

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But not all. Some warnings are based on actual facts but by your postings and others on this topic you and they are going to run the E15 no matter what anyone says. Goes back to my quote "your car, your choice, your risk , your money."

You can ignore every warning and every piece of information but do so at your own peril.
I made my choice and it is to follow the owners manual. My goal as I have stated many times before is to have this car as long or longer than previous cars I have owned.

Many warnings are primarily to cover their asses.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
But not all. Some warnings are based on actual facts but by your postings and others on this topic you and they are going to run the E15 no matter what anyone says. Goes back to my quote "your car, your choice, your risk , your money."

You can ignore every warning and every piece of information but do so at your own peril.
I made my choice and it is to follow the owners manual. My goal as I have stated many times before is to have this car as long or longer than previous cars I have owned.
That is true, I'm not saying all warnings are bogus either. What I'm saying is that you should take them with a grain of salt and do more research, rather than just blindly follow them like sacred text. From what I've read, Honda is simply saying that they won't honor warranties on cars damaged by E15. They haven't said "yes, e15 will, beyond a doubt, damage your car"
 

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This thread has gone on way too long. Question has been asked and answered.
Here is the summary of all the back and forth above
1) Can you run E15? Yes but Owners manual says to run up to 10% Ethanol
2) Can you run E85? Not recommended as 85% is higher than 10% Ethanol and most members who have posted have said for various reasons not to.
3) Did Honda say not to run E15? Not explicitly but did say that you can run up to 10% ethanol. That language to me is pretty definitive.

This topic will now continue to be a back and forth with speculation and arguments on both sides. People are going to do what they are going to do no matter what so I am done posting in this thread.
 

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And E 10 sucks over regular gas with 5 or less % ethanol.
Remember clearly when e5 come out, how dead my cb7 accord felt. Until after a few tanks of it, I filled with non ethanol gas.
And it was back to its self again.
Was just about to do valve adjustments and what not. Ignition timing..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Really? Interesting. What difference did you notice? Was it simply lower power, or did it not run right?
 

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Just felt dead, when I would acc., it would go, but not on the e5, it was sluggish.
also the economy mpg was down
just as it is now with E 10 gas vs. E5 vpower. gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Just felt dead, when I would acc., it would go, but not on the e5, it was sluggish.
also the economy mpg was down
just as it is now with E 10 gas vs. E5 vpower. gas.
I'd imagine that, being an older car, its fuel system would be less precise and wouldn't be able to adapt to the same degree compared to a newer engine. Perhaps it couldn't get the AFR just right leading to a sluggish engine that consumes more fuel.

On my CR-Z, if I drive carefully, I can still get 39-40 mpg for a trip, but iif I drive less carefully, I usually get 25-27, whereas I'd usually get 30 if I'm not mindful. I recently took my Civic on a trip to Daytona and I filled with E15 before I left from an empty tank. I did notice I had less range, having only travelled 140 miles before reaching 1/2 tank, whereas I can go up to 200 before that happens. However, both cars felt the same aside from slightly lower mpg. If someone else had filled with E15 and didn't tell me, I'd have no clue whatsoever.

Still, I think that I'll stick to E10. E15 is slightly cheaper, but E10 from Costco is even cheaper, gets me slightly better MPG and I'm 100% sure it works no problem. I don't feel super comfortable running E15, even though I'm sure its fine.
 
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