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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have raced my 1st Gen Insight on the track and even autoxing and the problem with the Insight is that the battery becomes dis-charged by the time you have finished one lap. In autox events I would have to charge the batteries between laps by reving the engine to 3100 RPM. The engine at those RPM's would force charge the battery. The problem with the IMA system is that when your racing, the amount of braking isn't usually enough to keep the batteries fully charged or for that matter charged at all. After about a lap you would have no battery boost. No battery boost, loss of horsepower.


My question is if the CR-Z has this same problem. I have watched all of the track videos and for the most part they are one lap videos so the battery may not have enough time to dis-charge like the Insight.

Maybe someone has the answer?
 

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Autocar magazine in the uk tested this on track. They said that after one lap the batteries run out and the performance dropped by a few seconds a lap. I must admit I was pretty gutted when I read that but I guess it's meant more as a fun road car than a pure track machine in which case it would need a better recharge system or better/more batteries. I guess it also depends what track your on and how much engine braking there is....:huh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There was also a system called MIMA develpoed for the 1st gen Insight. It work very well, but of course it voids your Honda warranty.

Without the battery input the performance of the CR-Z will suffer. Altough it may be a bit less of a performance loss than the 1st Insight as the Insight 2nd gear (5 speed tranny) is so darn tall. The 1st gen Insight can do 70 MPH in 2nd gear, but man does it take some time to get to 70MPH.
 

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There was also a system called MIMA develpoed for the 1st gen Insight. It work very well, but of course it voids your Honda warranty...
The CR-Z will face the same issue as the Insight 2010 for the MIMA system. Everything is now controlled through the CAN Bus, and the codes are a real puzzle. If the codes for assist and regen are known, MIMA can be created for the CR-Z, the Insight 2010 and the Civic Hybrid.

MIM thread on InsightCentral.net :

New MIMA Thread (all MIMA discussion goes here) - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

As for the KERS system, well... it's pretty much what is an hybrid : Recover the braking energy and store for future usage. So the CR-Z is already equipped with a KERS... :thumbsup:

For the racing strategy, there is not much options. Even if the battery would be doubled, with the same specs for the second set, you would only get 2 laps worth of energy in it. If you look at increasing the regen strategy, it would mean using the electric motor to produce more electric current to the battery, which would increase friction, therefore reduce the ICE power to the wheels.

Some folks have modeified a MK1 insight (Gen1) for race by changing the battery set for a Li-ion, I think 20AH, not too sure about the pack... This could be a good option, but again, limitted electric energy even though higher than stock.
 

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Yea I thought of this too.. And as I'm sure 90 percent of you would agree, we are looking for a NEW CRX... So, in my opinion, a new CRZ, rip the turd motor out, and all the heavy batterys and hybrid shit, and swap in a K20... Boom, fast ass 3rd gen CRX.
 

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As you all may know, Porsche is using a hybrid system on their Le Mans cars. How is it that they can get more than one lap without depleting the battery?
KERS systems that are installed in the LeMan cars and also those installed in the F1 cars last year (they unfortunately gave up on that...), are intended for short boosts on given time. They deplete all the battery in few seconds, then recover braking energy for 3-5 laps, then can use it again. And there is a load sh** of energy swap when these car brake.

The same could apply for the CR-Z, if there was a way to manually choose when to use the electric energy, instead of being driven by the car computer. In it's current form, almost every time the car accelerate, it will draw from the battery, which is enough to deplete in one lap. A MIMA equiped CR-Z could run only on ICE during acceleration, and use the IMA for a boost, exampe for passing another car. MIMA give this manual/human decision possible.

It becomes a strategy thinking... without IMA, each acceleration will be a little less powerful, yet you can use more energy at once for passing. Depending of the track, and number of cars to race against, both strategy could be valid.
 

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my understanding is that KERS was sorta like a shot of nitrous in terms of providing an instant boost when the driver wanted/needed it... that would be awesome to implement something like that on the CR-Z or Hybrids in general...
That's pretty much what an hybrid is... Everything is about how the car will use the electric. In a common hybrid like the CR-Z, the Insight, etc the car will constantly use the electric energy at each acceleration. For the insight, Honda’s approach was to reduce the ICE engine size to maximize the fuel economy, but it’s so small that without the electric motor, the car would be very very slow in accelerations. For the CR-Z, the approach is a bit the same, keep the ICE as small as possible, but give a higher overall power with the IMA combination.

In common hybrid cars, the car computer will automatically decide to use this assist every time the accel pedal is pressed deeper than a given angle. In a race car, the concept is the same for the powertrain (an electric engine gives a boost/help the ICE engine), however the driver manually choose the moment and the length of time to use this additional power.

In F1, I think the electric motor was able to deliver an additional 100hp for 4-5 seconds. In the CR-Z, the electric motor is 14hp. I have not seen the battery specs yet, but if Honda re-used the Insight battery, it will be the same 5.75Ah. At full assist, the battery will probably deplete in about 10 sec. I’m not sure if the computer allow full assist. I have never seen the gauge going to max in the Insight. May be the CR-Z settings are bit more aggressive though. We will have to get some behaviors reports from the new owners ! But for sure, MIMA would give the possibility to utilize full assist if properly set.
 
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