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Converting my Nimh CRZ to Lithium (Cells & Supercaps) and boosting IMA performance...

78K views 409 replies 34 participants last post by  PeterPerkins 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm a long time member/admin on the Insight Central forum and have worked on lots of the Honda IMA cars developing gadgets and doing Lithium conversions.
I've just bought a nice CRZ for myself and intend converting it to Lithium, upping the IMA power output and developing manual IMA control and info display devices.

I'll be documenting it in detail on here.

However for background reading visit www.insightcentral.net.
That's were millions of posts and most of my daily work is as I still have two G1 Insights and support owners worldwide.

The IC link below gives you a heads up and a few details on my ideas.

Honda CRZ Nimh to Lithium Conversion.

62506
 
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#115 · (Edited)
Yes it's doable if you have the skills and money. But it's never going to be a drop in solution unless I win the Euromillions on Friday. ;)
It's too early to say how well it will work in the long run, but I don't have any reason to doubt it can and will work like in the other IMA cars.
It also still needs work and research on protecting any Lithium pack you install and interfacing with the car.

Todays video is the Juntek meter install.



Just added the Juntek 0-400V 0-500A meter.
This allows me to see instant voltage and current levels.

It also has temperature sensor but I haven't bothered fitting that as the packs are stone cold.
I might add it to the IPU heatsink later so I can see how hot that is getting under high assist/regen loads.

This is all proof of concept stuff so don't let the spaghetti put you off.
It will all have to come out again in due course to be tidied, sorted and properly mounted.
 
#117 ·
If there was enough interest in terms of members who can do the conversion themselves or have someone with the skills needed to do the conversion, would it be possible to organise a sort of group buy for whatever hardware/software you settle on when all r&d is done.
 
#120 ·
I got my HDS working at last even if I had buy the software again, from an Ebay seller. DO NOT buy anything from OBD2SHOP.co.uk. They have had two attempts to supply me with useable software - the first DVD had a crack in it, and I could not get the files off the DVDs of the second set received yesterday. (tried 2 laptops and a PC)
Anyway, a quick look showed 21.3kw as max motor power, and 17.2kw as max charging power.
Remaining capacity was a disappointing 38%. I have a stop start system DTC which I need to clear before I can change any settings.
Peter, what happens if I tell it the IMA battery has been replaced?
Next step is to connect both the HDS and Can Bus analyser using a splitter cable from Amazon...
 
#121 · (Edited)
The car will try and use the full useable capacity. Whatever that is for OEM Lithium in the CRZ.
Presumably it will find out that perhaps one of the cells is weak and it will chop down the useable capacity again in due course.

Please post an IMA list like I did. Just go into IMA 'datalist', once it has populated with info, click the print icon to print it to a wps file.
I then used an online service to convert the wps file into a pdf for posting.
 
#123 · (Edited)
It basically works as designed. :devilish:

Faking the voltages under heavy assist down to the 84V~ PPP (Peak Power Point) we get an extra 20A for free across the board!

If the car was assisting at 90A we get 110A If the car was assisting at 105A we get 125A ( I saw just over 125A peak current)
In power terms assuming a voltage of 137V under load that equates to an increase of 2.7kw for me over previous levels.

Peak power today was about 17kw

I'm going to do away with the switch and just have it activated by the assist current level.
It comes in smoothly and it's pretty pointless having to bother with the switch, you may as well have it enabled all the time. LOL.

We can always tweak the current set point if needed.

Sorry my action camera thing is not set correctly Grrr.
I failed to record any figures from my meter. Will try again later.



So we have maxed out stage one now by forcing the car to use maximum OEM current at the 1V per cell voltage peak power point.
I actually ended up with two 43V zener diodes in series to give 86V which helps with long term reliability as it's less on the cusp/edge.
The extra amp you might squeeze by screwing it right down to 84V is not worth the extra hassle or reliability impact.

We haven't maxed out the voltage hacking though as that still needs work.
We haven't even started hacking the actual current sensors yet!!!

So jobs for the next few days in no particular order.

1) Enable the current activated PPP Mode 24/7.
2) Add the extra regen brake switch parallel switch hack.
3) Pull it all out again and neaten the install.
4) Take it to the rolling road.
 
#128 · (Edited)
Well accessing the yellow clutch switch A wires for soldering/crimping etc is a non starter IMO.
Upside down in the footwell it's an inaccessible bastard.

62631


So it will have to be a pass thru connector, which means I need a clutch switch (or equivalent male harness receptacle) and the female harness connector plus about 6 inches of wire.

I'll also do the same for the green brake switch, although it is slightly easier to access but has a weird connector see pics.

62633


So if anyone has a scrapper and can send me the parts switches and harness that would be great. Any offers.. |

Perhaps someone knows what the various connectors/part numbers are, none of my Insight OEM ones fitted.
 
#130 ·
I def can't be bothered with that.. LOL I'll cannibalize some switches and connectors from a breakers yard. :rolleyes:

I've taken the Lithium setup and IPU all out again now as there is only so much 'temporary mounting' and spaghetti I can stand.

I would quite like to put two LTO blocks under the IPU and perhaps one above.
Anyway time to test my Aluminium metal work skills a bit.
Quite a few things I want to do now so it won't be running for a bit.

1) Move main fuse to an accessible location and uprate to 150/200A.

2) Add some capacitors to the BCM fooler to improve stability.

3) Bring our some pre-charge contactor wiring to tackle the current sensor fault at 175V.

4) Bring out the phase and current sensor outputs to an accessible location for hacking.

5) Mount the LTO blocks in a safe and secure way.

6) Modify the IPU mounting brackets and ducting so it can be removed without having to pull out the interior trim.
I might have to cut some access slots into the non visible below boot floor level of the side trims to get to the 4 bolts.

7) Add the brake/clutch switches.

Loads of other things I have forgotten.
 
#133 ·
Musing over options re installing the LTO packs.



Two packs for the OEM Voltage level is fairly easy.
Three packs for the hacked high voltage option is more tricky.
I would really like them all in the OEM Battery space.

62637


Two blocks no problem.
Plenty of space at the back and on the right for the switchboard.

62638


Three blocks good space at the back, nice and symmetrical but no clearance on the right for the switchboard :(

62639


Three blocks again but using a special end to end block and two normal ones.
This looks like the optimum to get them into the OEM space.
Slightly less crush zone at the back but adequate space on the right for the switchboard.
Just need to grind those tabs off on the right of the blocks.

Hmm.. Lots of work to do.. Ideas welcomed..
 
#137 ·
More HDS screenshots from my 2013 CRZ.
 
#139 ·
Inching slowly forwards.



Adding padding and insulation for the bottom of the IPU.
Balancing and assembling the LTO blocks into the 2 x triple block config.
Redoing the switchboard so wires come out of the back rather than the front and insulating connections etc.

Looking at the mounting and making it removable without pulling out all the trim. See below.

62656


In the picture above I might cut the bars off at the orange lines.
Drill 8mm holes through the bars and the floor at the orange dots.
Mount a captive nut and bolt on a massive washer on the underside/outside.

I need to investigate underneath but I think the area will be clear enough for a captive nut and washer.
 
#140 ·
A bit of a lull today watching the Rugby and waiting for the overwhelmed postal service to deliver some parts.

Added the gizmo activation current sensor to the back of the switchboard and reprogrammed the voltage fooler as I had to reverse the sensor orientation.

Plan tomorrow make up the captive boot bolts/plates tomorrow and chop down the support bars.
 
#141 ·
if you pull this off is it possible to make batteries for the community.
I would so buy it given that im experiencing issues with my IMA system.
 
#142 ·
if you pull this off is it possible to make batteries for the community.
I would so buy it given that im experiencing issues with my IMA system.
It's already pulled off at post 67 with standard voltages, and then at post 101 for +30V. :devilish:
I have commented earlier about actually building and installing packs. Have a look back at the thread. :)
 
#143 ·
Can you give your wisdom on snoop G's post on this thread please?
 
#146 ·
What concerns me about NiMh is we go thru the same issues down the track

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
#148 ·

congratulations by the way i just seen the video.
This is a massive win. after all these years no one either tried or has managed to make it work.

Is there a quick tour guide of the CRZ u can do from the exterior to then driving etc in-cabin view.
 
#150 ·
@PeterPerkins I'm doing a little project for my first year of Mech Engineering on hybrid vehicles. It's a short enough affair mostly orientated towards the development through the years of the hybrid rather than a technical expose.

Onw thing however I have learned during my research is that toyota offered both Nimh and lithium ion in the 2015 on Prius as an option. The motivation they say was that those who wanted a high spec prius could opt for the Lithium pack as it was 16kg lighter, so economy remained the same with the weight of the additional options.

I've asked a similar question before but from a purely theoretical standpoint, would it be possible to switch to a homemade lithium ion battery pack, with the oem voltage etc purely for the weight saving.
 
#151 ·
@PeterPerkins I'm doing a little project for my first year of Mech Engineering on hybrid vehicles. It's a short enough affair mostly orientated towards the development through the years of the hybrid rather than a technical expose.

Onw thing however I have learned during my research is that toyota offered both Nimh and lithium ion in the 2015 on Prius as an option. The motivation they say was that those who wanted a high spec prius could opt for the Lithium pack as it was 16kg lighter, so economy remained the same with the weight of the additional options.

I've asked a similar question before but from a purely theoretical standpoint, would it be possible to switch to a homemade lithium ion battery pack, with the oem voltage etc purely for the weight saving.
I don't know much about the Toyotas.
If you mean in a Honda CRZ, then In a nutshell. Yes.
 
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