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Discussion Starter · #361 ·
Sorry for the lack of updates. Not much to report.. (y)

I have just been trundling around with this in regular use and it seems to work OK.
i.e. No errors so far or unexpected behaviour..

I've reached the voltage limit for the Frankenstein combo Nimh/Lithium hardware at about 185V max, but I can pull 25kw with this setup..

I am trying to arrange a dyno test to see the output compared to the stock Nimh setup from over a year ago..

I am starting to understand a bit more about the IMA CAN data so there is a slim possibility I might be able to up the voltage some more in the future with different hardware.
 

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Discussion Starter · #362 · (Edited)
Finally I was able to get the modified Frankenstein car on the same rolling road. (y)

The Hull dyno outfit are a disorganised shower. :mad:
I was kept waiting for ages, was not able to supervise due to health and safety, it was a different dyno guy, and they/he didn't take the car to the rev limiter like last time.. :(

But if we look at the chart and extrapolate a bit I think we would have seen around 140hp at the wheels at just over 6000rpm.
That's up about 10hp on the standard Nimh when I tested it just after buying it. (Note that old Nimh pack was quite good).

Torque was just over 200nm at around 2300rpm, that's up approx 40nm from before. (y)
So pretty reasonable but I need to find some better dyno guys..

Sport mode ON. VSA OFF.

Black and white chart is modified car.
Colour is good standard Nimh pack in oem setup.

Even more voltage/current would get us more power ;)
I still think the IMA motor has another +10hp and +40nm left in it so back to the modding drawing board.
I need 220V :cry:


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First time labeled CRV, then CRX, they're good, really need to find different dyno people.

Anyway, almost new owner here, just got a 2010 CRZ, getting delivery tomorrow. Any bets on battery state at 145kkm? I've set up a HDS VM, will report back.
@PeterPerkins You've done an incredible job! You've put lots and lots of effort into this.
I'm totally interested in doing the 144v LTO pack with 16Ah cells, not even the current mod. I have hardware design, BMS and some EV experience, this looks decently easy, but I'll be back for more info.
Also, if you need help with any kind of firmware, hardware, CAN, blah, I'm in. Planning to keep the car for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #365 · (Edited)
Big shout out to Karl & Scott at GarySpeed Performance today for the axle dyno runs.
Both nice friendly chaps and a good hour or so spent chatting and setting up before the runs.

Anyway the results. Note. Ignore the sharp peak right at the start of the graphs as the dyno brakes the engine.
The peak torque was actually about 227nm with IMA on at just over 2000rpm.

Hacked IMA On. Red Torque & Blue Power.

IMA Off. Gold Torque & Purple Power.

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The car is terrible with no IMA..
It accounts for nearly a doubling of the torque at low RPM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #366 · (Edited)
They also had a nice neat JDM import Black 2012 Honda Fit RS Hybrid which I had a quick go in.
It's CVT and is basically the early Nimh CR-Z stuff in a Fit/Jazz body. It's very quick off the line.

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It's was good and of course all my hybrid tweaking would work in that as well. I'm tempted to buy one LOL!

I did plug my OBDII gizmo in and it reported a very healthy 75% useable battery capacity which is the maximum.

 

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@PeterPerkins I have read through this thread several times now and taken my time so I can follow along with what you've done. I want to start piecing together my own LTO/Lithium high voltage pack following your example. Can you please read what I've condensed below and see if I am missing anything or making mistakes?

Parts Required:
OEM Nimh IMA battery, complete
OEM Lithium MPI IGBT power module
200+v capable DC-DC (H2HC Civic is recommended)
"+22% current hack"

Without the current hack the max power you were able to make was 100A at 180V = 18kw

With the +22% current hack makes it 150A and 25kw! That is truly an amazing result! Thank you for sharing what you've learned in such detail. It seems like 180v max is the most reliable/repeatable voltage. I have two specific questions to help me along.

  • Is the DC-DC "dumb" or does it need to talk on CAN?
  • Can you reproduce the "+22% PCBs" for others?
 

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Discussion Starter · #368 · (Edited)
Nice to have someone wanting to have a go. (y)
That also helps keeps me motivated as well.

If you are going for the full Frankenstein pack then you need a complete IMA pack from a Lithium and Nimh car to source all the parts and connectors etc.

I would use the OEM Lithium DC-DC for ease and reliability and keep my absolute maximum pack voltage to <180V.
The DC-DC does not use CAN it has its own serial comms with the MCM.

Reproducing the current hack PCB.. HMM.. I don't have a proper PCB.
I built all mine on stripboard, so others can/could do that from my schematics.

What car is yours? CVT/Manual? Nimh/Lithium?
 

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Nice to have someone wanting to have a go. (y)
That also helps keeps me motivated as well.

If you are going for the full Frankenstein pack then you need a complete IMA pack from a Lithium and Nimh car to source all the parts and connectors etc.

I would use the OEM Lithium DC-DC for ease and reliability and keep my absolute maximum pack voltage to <180V.
The DC-DC does not use CAN it has its own serial comms with the MCM.

Reproducing the current hack PCB.. HMM.. I don't have a proper PCB.
I built all mine on stripboard, so others can/could do that from my schematics.

What car is yours? CVT/Manual? Nimh/Lithium?
Great I will start looking for a complete lithium battery. My car is a 2011, 6MT, Nimh same as yours.
 

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My strong advice would also be do not do this if you do not have the skills and/or can't afford to lose the money if it all goes wrong.
Upgrading the IMA was always my intention before I bought a CR-Z because I'm interested in it! I have extensive experience building EVs and working with high voltage DC systems and lithium batteries so I'm not a novice but I appreciate the words of warning!
 

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Upgrading the IMA was always my intention before I bought a CR-Z because I'm interested in it! I have extensive experience building EVs and working with high voltage DC systems and lithium batteries so I'm not a novice but I appreciate the words of warning!
I'm in the same boat.
I can also design PCBs in whatever flavors, I'd be down to help design wise.
Still trying to source decent LTO cells that won't cost a kidney in shipping. My target is 144v max, for now. Using the/a standard nimh pack configuration.
 

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@PeterPerkins I've been thinking about battery sizing and I'm wondering if you have any insight as to what capacity might be useful and what would be overkill. I figure that the larger the battery, the longer the assist will last, but also the longer the car will take to re-charge it during normal driving. I want to also install a charger for plug-in charging while parked. This is what is making me lean towards a larger capacity pack (by that I mean 3kwh or more).

-With your mods is the car able to re-charge the pack up to 180+ volts?
-Do you see a downside in a large capacity pack vs. smaller capacity all other things being equal?
-Is the IMA assist dependent on battery voltage or SOH or do I need your MITM device to get 100% assist all the time?

I'm in the same boat.
I can also design PCBs in whatever flavors, I'd be down to help design wise.
Still trying to source decent LTO cells that won't cost a kidney in shipping. My target is 144v max, for now. Using the/a standard nimh pack configuration.
Let me know if you come up with a design, I will purchase one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #374 · (Edited)
The car is quite capable of charging over 180V.
But the effective absolute max sensible limit when using the OEM Lithium parts is 180V as the DC-DC shuts down at around 185-190V+ and you need some regen spike headroom.

Large capacity packs are heavier/bigger and you have to fit/secure them safely and lug the weight around.

The MITM device is not ready yet. I might work on it over winter..

You will need a SOC reset device (My OBDIIC&C) to fully utilise a big pack i.e one that contains more than about 6ah for a PHEV mode.

The SOC device can simply reset the SOC to 75% constantly until your giant pack is depleted.
Doing that will make the car use the IMA aggressively and stop it charging at all apart from on the overrun or when braking.

I've successfully used 5, 10, 20, 40 and even 60ah packs in various IMA conversions I have done over the years on cars including the G1 Insight, HCH1 Civic, CR-Z etc.
If you scour my YT channel you will find various videos on most of these older projects.
 

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The car is quite capable of charging over 180V.
But the effective absolute max sensible limit when using the OEM Lithium parts is 180V as the DC-DC shuts down at around 185-190V+ and you need some regen spike headroom.

Large capacity packs are heavier/bigger and you have to fit/secure them safely and lug the weight around.

The MITM device is not ready yet. I might work on it over winter..

You will need a SOC reset device (My OBDIIC&C) to fully utilise a big pack i.e one that contains more than about 6ah for a PHEV mode.

The SOC device can simply reset the SOC to 75% constantly until your giant pack is depleted.
Doing that will make the car use the IMA aggressively and stop it charging at all apart from on the overrun or when braking.

I've successfully used 5, 10, 20, 40 and even 60ah packs in various IMA conversions I have done over the years on cars including the G1 Insight, HCH1 Civic, CR-Z etc.
If you scour my YT channel you will find various videos on most of these older projects.
I am setting up the OBDIIC&C device I received from you now so I will figure out how to reset the SOC. Is it something I press a button to reset every time or is there a feature to reset the SOC when it gets low over and over and over automatically? My idea is to use it in autocross where each run is a 50-70 seconds long sprint through cones at low to medium speeds. If I reset the SOC before each run then I should get 100% assist for the duration, so I'm aiming for a large enough pack that could support multiple runs without adding too much weight.

I have been watching through your YouTube and posts here but there is a lot to learn :)
 

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Ok after using the OBDIIC&C device for just a little while I've already answered most of my questions. Really cool. I was able to charge my pack up to 120v during stop and go traffic and then drive flat out (nearly) on the highway uphill 800 vertical feet maintaining assist the whole way. Usually it would drop out shortly after getting on the highway.

I'm not sure if you are developing this device still but if it could be programmed to set a certain Ah limit and then it could automatically reset SOC over and over to use that defined capacity and then force a recharge etc etc. Either way I am really happy to have this device. Anyone who wants to do performance driving with their CR-Z should have one of these IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #377 ·
What was your packs useable capacity before any reset to 75%?

I've used various variations of the firmware for the multiple packs I have tried in the CR-Z.
I had an auto SOC resetting version for the LTO blocks IIRC and something for the supercaps.

I'm always tinkering with stuff so will have a look and see what I can do..
It might already be in the firmware.. Remind me what version you have..

Auto soc setting for the OEM Nimh pack will be very limited, you can probably only do it once or twice in a run.
When a cell hits empty we want assist to stop or it will reverse.

You can make the car idle charge waiting for your next run by setting the soc to low.
But it only does it for 5% soc iirc so that would also need an auto low setting to make it recharge continuously in the pits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #378 ·
Try this firmware. (Note it's untested by me as I don't have a working Nimh car) It seems to work ok on the bench.
The only change from the prev version is.... A pit charge function.

If you press the button below the screen the green led will flash and the car will go into forced charge mode with <30% SOC.
It will stay like that until you press the button again to cancel or the pack voltage goes over 125V or the car naturally recalibrates itself to 75% SOC.

A battery temperature over 45C will also disable this mode.

Rename attached file to .hex as usual

Note fiddling with this stuff could potentially damage your IMA battery.

The risk of that happening is minimal but is entirely yours.
 

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What was your packs useable capacity before any reset to 75%?

I've used various variations of the firmware for the multiple packs I have tried in the CR-Z.
I had an auto SOC resetting version for the LTO blocks IIRC and something for the supercaps.

I'm always tinkering with stuff so will have a look and see what I can do..
It might already be in the firmware.. Remind me what version you have..

Auto soc setting for the OEM Nimh pack will be very limited, you can probably only do it once or twice in a run.
When a cell hits empty we want assist to stop or it will reverse.

You can make the car idle charge waiting for your next run by setting the soc to low.
But it only does it for 5% soc iirc so that would also need an auto low setting to make it recharge continuously in the pits.
My Nimh battery was showing 75% Usable Capacity. I did a deep charge/discharge cycle last week, I had no way to measure Usable Capacity until I got your device but the deep cycling certainly helped and it automatically reset itself to 75%.

I'm just messing with my Nimh pack and the device to see what's possible and I can already tell it makes a big difference. I won't be pushing it too hard until I install Lithium. I will figure out my firmware version.
 

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@PeterPerkins I can hook you up with a dual can design based on esp32 with dual core goodness, and a freertos framework for proper speed and async/multitask stuff.
There's a devkit combo possible to get you started for <100£, but i do have a custom hardware design almost done. With no other purpose at the moment.
I just need future help when I get to the point of actually doing something myself. I'll get you started in setting up the development environment and getting it running, your c&c code can run in a task, leaving a lot of space for wifi server, Bluetooth, display, whatever.
 
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