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if you pull this off is it possible to make batteries for the community.
I would so buy it given that im experiencing issues with my IMA system.
 

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Discussion Starter #142
if you pull this off is it possible to make batteries for the community.
I would so buy it given that im experiencing issues with my IMA system.
It's already pulled off at post 67 with standard voltages, and then at post 101 for +30V. :devilish:
I have commented earlier about actually building and installing packs. Have a look back at the thread. :)
 

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It's already pulled off at post 67 with standard voltages, and then at post 101 for +30V. :devilish:
I have commented earlier about actually building and installing packs. Have a look back at the thread. :)
You can even spoon feed step by step instructions and in a way you have show us how to make it all happen but the truth is some of us would like to buy a package and install it.
Thats the honest truth your knowledge and depth of understanding flaws me man. But there is no way I would be able to put something like what you have done together.

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You can always buy a replacement (after market) NiMh battery pack so at least you will have the same performance as a new car but I'd have expected warning lights and DTCs if your IMA system is faulty.
 

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You can always buy a replacement (after market) NiMh battery pack so at least you will have the same performance as a new car but I'd have expected warning lights and DTCs if your IMA system is faulty.
What concerns me about NiMh is we go thru the same issues down the track

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congratulations by the way i just seen the video.
This is a massive win. after all these years no one either tried or has managed to make it work.

Is there a quick tour guide of the CRZ u can do from the exterior to then driving etc in-cabin view.
 

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@PeterPerkins I'm doing a little project for my first year of Mech Engineering on hybrid vehicles. It's a short enough affair mostly orientated towards the development through the years of the hybrid rather than a technical expose.

Onw thing however I have learned during my research is that toyota offered both Nimh and lithium ion in the 2015 on Prius as an option. The motivation they say was that those who wanted a high spec prius could opt for the Lithium pack as it was 16kg lighter, so economy remained the same with the weight of the additional options.

I've asked a similar question before but from a purely theoretical standpoint, would it be possible to switch to a homemade lithium ion battery pack, with the oem voltage etc purely for the weight saving.
 

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Discussion Starter #151
@PeterPerkins I'm doing a little project for my first year of Mech Engineering on hybrid vehicles. It's a short enough affair mostly orientated towards the development through the years of the hybrid rather than a technical expose.

Onw thing however I have learned during my research is that toyota offered both Nimh and lithium ion in the 2015 on Prius as an option. The motivation they say was that those who wanted a high spec prius could opt for the Lithium pack as it was 16kg lighter, so economy remained the same with the weight of the additional options.

I've asked a similar question before but from a purely theoretical standpoint, would it be possible to switch to a homemade lithium ion battery pack, with the oem voltage etc purely for the weight saving.
I don't know much about the Toyotas.
If you mean in a Honda CRZ, then In a nutshell. Yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #152 (Edited)
I managed to find an enclosure for the 200A main fuse I will be fitting when it all goes back in.
This fuse will go in the same electrical point in the circuit as the OEM one was previously.
It should give sufficient headroom for the current hacking in due course.

I also made up my M8 captive bolt plates for the IPU mounting brackets.
Still waiting for the slow post for some parts etc.

Notes.

IIRC I think the peak current I achieved with the Insight was about 160A at about 200V which gave 30kw or so.
But that called for special circuitry and a gadget to activate the current hack in limited circumstances.

Our IMA motor is a (BLDC) Brushless DC 3 Phase Type. It can give maximum torque at zero rpm!
However it also has little resistance to current flow at low rpm so the IGBT drive module can be stressed. It's almost like a short circuit!
As rpm rises back EMF increases and current falls.

In the earlier IMA cars the IGBT drive was believed to be a square wave at low rpm and changed to sine wave as rpm rose.
That might be wrong and as FG points out in a later post is not normal practice.

With current hacking you can only increase the current so much across the board before the IGBT get so stressed at low rpm it thinks there is a short circuit and faults.
This problem caps the current hacking to about +40% at low/zero RPM in the Insight.
Above about 2000 rpm as back emf rises current spikes are reduced and you can increase the hack to around +50%

The IGBT also has internal short circuit current protection and will protect itself no matter how much current we ask it to pass.
However if it says enough it also sends an overcurrent fault code to the MCM module which trips the IMA.
In the past I have defeated that by intercepting or preventing the fault code reaching the MCM. :devilish:
This means an overcurrent scenario just causes a tiny drive glitch and it automatically recovers without faulting.

Anyway all this is in the future..

First of all I want the voltage hack working at +60V then I will try a 20% current hack.
 

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Discussion Starter #153
Advanced Diagnostic Information.

The linked zip file contains a large number of PDF's that relate to the many DTC and Error P codes the car can set.
Each pdf is a very useful addition to the information in the workshop manuals and provides a lot of info about what is going on.

Advance DTC
 

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Discussion Starter #154
If we take the classic P0A7F IMA Battery deterioration code (attached) we can see the CRZ threshold is 20% in this June 2011 PDF.

In the Insight G1 it is 10%

I suspect this is an early version of the CRZ Nimh strategy, and that once batteries started giving deterioration codes the MCM 'update' came along and dropped the fault threshold further.
Probably to 10% whilst also greatly reducing the use the car makes of the pack to help it cling on. An instant fix..... :rolleyes:

Maybe they went with 20% initially deliberately to give themselves this breathing space later if problems developed.
 

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Peter, looking at this setup there was no way to fit the batteries and everything in its usual hybrid battery bucket OEM spot that was there ?
Or is the clearance replacing the spare space saver tire cause looking at the picture it seems these batteries sits above the existing hybrid system .
 

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Discussion Starter #156
SnoopG.

This is a proof of concept build to see if the basic electronic ideas work etc
I'm using the cells I have readily available for this. It doesn't matter what it looks like or where it fits for this testing.

Later it may well be possible to order some much more compact cells and build a smaller pack that fits into the OEM space.
We don't have the space saver spare in the UK (Well I don't anyway) so I can use that space as well for this testing.

There would have been no point on day 1 building a tiny neat new expensive pack that fits into the OEM space
if the basic ideas and theory did not work or the car would not accept it.
 

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I wouldn't expect the IGBTs to be driven with anything but a variable pulse width square wave as this is the most efficient way and causes less heating of the transistor because it is either on or off and is also an easy way to control the current from zero to 100%. As the back emf builds up this will deform the pulses so at the motor they will look more sine/triangle like. So my guess is that you were looking at the motor voltage, not the IGBT drive signal?
 

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Discussion Starter #158
That makes standard practise sense FG, I'll have to check and see what they did years ago on the Insight Forum to get that info.
IIRC one of the older members scoped it but looks like they may well have misinterpreted the results.

Todays job have involved adding connections to all the various bits I want to hack on the switch board and in the IPU area.

62682


1) Adding wires for the precharge resistor and contactor so I can bypass/modify it etc if required

62681


2) Adding breakout wires for all the current sensors and looking inside the phase sensor block for useful info.

62683


62684


By bringing all the hacking wires out to a flat area above the rear LTO packs I can have a sort of giant circuit laid out that's easy to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #159
Managed to get a clutch and brake switch and harness connectors so can make my pass thru switches in due course.

62691
 

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Discussion Starter #160
Packing the LTO Cell blocks in for temporary power research install V2.
Note space down right hand side at front for switchboard.

I decided to keep the long support bars intact and not drill through the floor for now.
V3 maybe in the spring will probably be built with bespoke cells in the vacated OEM battery space.

62695


Still waiting for some parts to arrive :mad: but getting nearer wiring it back up.
 
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