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Discussion Starter #1
This is related to my other post about changing the clutch fluid but I feel that might help others and I don't wanna bog it down with unrelated posts

Background:
Me and my cousin(backyard mechanic) put in a new stage 1 racing clutch about 7 months ago and I don't think he torqued the drain nut right and looking back I don't think he even opened the fill hole, so I probably have had low transmission fluid for the past 7 months
I have a transmission fluid leak that I just noticed when I had it on jacks, it seems to be an ULTRA small leak as its been 7ish months like I said and when I had it on jacks is the 1st time I noticed ANYTHING I kept an eye under the car when I moved it to make sure I wasn't leaking fluid the 1st few months after the clutch change, for the past few months(about 5ish months after the change) I started noticing grinding in 5th and recently grinding in 4th but barely noticeable unlike 5th at times it just doesn't wanna go in 5th
After I had it on jacks I saw transmission fluid all over the bottom of the engine block I also started noticing a very small amount on the ground as well, my guess is the shift from having on jacks had an effect on this?
I don't think my transmission is harmed and I inspected it for cracks or damage from rocks or the jacks and I couldn't find anything
But as soon as I noticed the fluid leak I haven't driven it and will not till I confirm using dye it's only leaking out of the drain hole and flush the transmission
The grinding in 5th and 4th feel less like a transmission issue and almost like the clutch is still partially engaged
at 1st I thought this was due to the transmission fluid as I thought my cousin overfilled it, but no "oil change" shop will touch manual transmissions and I didn't have jacks or a place to jack up my car at my house so I had planned on checking it when I visited my family
My clutch has been perfect beyond the issue with the fluid my cousin does know what he was doing he just doesn't work on imports very much and it was an honest mistake, we resurfaced the flywheel and installed the clutch right and I haven't had an issue with the clutch at all, no shudder, vibrations, etc

So on to my issue:
After I had it on jacks, I started to notice a clutch slip under heavy load with at least half battery in high gears(5th, 6th), I had ZERO issues at all prior to having it on jacks and had driven 400+ miles to my family's house a few days prior so I would've noticed it
Having experienced clutch slip before I was mad and thinking my clutch was gunna go and it shouldn't its too new and while I am a spirited driver I don't "abuse" my clutch much but regardless I did the usual tests and it passed every single one, this and the age made me think that something else is going on so I started to research it and came across bad cylinders and did the tests for this and it passed even more confused I did more research and came across clutch fluid and this also explained every other issue I had such as the grinding as it felt less like a transmission issue and more like the clutch was still partially engaged and due to it only slipping under heavy load in high gear with more than half battery makes me think something is going on with the pressure plate and NOT the clutch, so I checked the fluid and its fine, its not low if anything it might be a little too full so I was even more confused then I got to thinking with that leak I wonder if I got oil in the clutch and that is the only issue by this time I had already bought the stuff I needed to do a clutch fluid change and figured even IF I had enough it hadn't been changed before and it won't hurt and should help my other issues

I had it on jacks to do some bodywork(I had torn the lower radiator support and had to replace it), put in the racing radiator and I had washed the engine using a light sprayer on the hose and some engine degreaser

The tests I performed:
The clutch: handbrake test, start from high gear test, rpm jump test(passes all gears except for 5th and 6th and ONLY when I floor it and the battery is at least half way charged it DOES NOT slip at all if the battery is under halfway charged)
Cylinders: Low bite point, leaks passed all

Mileage:
Around 48k
Since clutch change about 4.5k, 5k mostly highway(took a trip to co, round trip about 2.8k)

Clutch:
SPEC Clutch SHZ151




My question:
Does anyone know what could cause this, could it be the transmission fluid, clutch fluid or oil on the clutch or what? and if it isn't the clutch fluid is it even worth flushing the system if Im not low?
 

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Sounds like when my pressure plate toasted on my old ranger. Got so bad it would slip in every gear, and grind the gears with the clutch all the way in.

But it had 230K miles on it, not 4500-5000.

Have you contacted Spec to see if their customer support can help?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Have you contacted Spec to see if their customer support can help?
Not yet Im just sure what is going on and if it has anything to do with the clutch itself, I wasnt aware a pressure plate would go before a clutch, maybe I should contact them just in case
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hmm. Not to be a downer but I read about an issue with spec clutches on the forum one day ... I found the thread so I'll drop a link.

http://www.crzforum.com/forum/transmission-discussion/51442-has-anyone-tried-these-clutches.html#/topics/51442?page=2

Give it a read and check yours out... Keep us posted!
I have already read that a while ago, to me it sounds like the clutch was installed wrong, I read all about various brands prior to me replacing it, inc on other forms and cars, it does sound like shuddering and hard engagement is a common issue with spec in higher stages but not lower, but it is or isnt meaning you have an issue, you have an issue soon, if you don't you don't, so I seriously doubt its this
Honestly, HKS is really the only clutch I found that didnt have any issues ever and this was far outside my price range, spec and hpd had about the same amount of issues and EXEDY and XTD had crap tons of issues
The other thing is it makes ZERO sense as to why I started having issues after having my car on jacks but zero issues prior to that inc 2 long high mile trips with zero issues
In fact during the break-in period my clutch had hard engagement but after nothing, zero issues
I do appreciate the help and not trying to be a douche and not saying it cant be a defect Im just saying it is very unlikely and doesn't make any sense with the issues Im having, the only way this could make sense is the pressure plate is bad which honestly I am worried about but I do have my doubts for this as well as it makes little sense to suddenly not hold and simultaneously hold too much(clutch slipping in 5th and 6th, gear grinding in 4th and 5th) which COULD happen if it was stuck, but it would show other signs if it was stuck I have zero issues in 1 - 3, 6 doesnt grid but has the same issue as 5th and 4th doesnt slip
 

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Ehh you aren't really being "a douche." I'm just giving you information I have seen related to the clutch (in particular the pressure plate). If it isn't, now someone else who may encounter an issue would be able to read and understand what they may need to do; empirical knowledge is useful.

It's strange to only work in few gears and not the others though...
 

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the only way this could make sense is the pressure plate is bad which honestly I am worried about
I've also found some other places online where the spring set in the friction disc can break, causing problems.

Otherwise, wanting to believe that the *very expensive* new part you just installed isn't defective... that doesn't make you a douche. just stubborn. 10 years ago, I would not suspect a part to have been bad out of the box, but anymore after I've gotten several BotB parts, it's top of the list of things to suspect. Especially since brief searches on this brand yield widely mixed reviews on the consistency of their products. Reviews range from failure before break-in all the way up to 100K happy miles.
but I do have my doubts for this as well as it makes little sense to suddenly not hold and simultaneously hold too much(clutch slipping in 5th and 6th, gear grinding in 4th and 5th) which COULD happen if it was stuck, but it would show other signs if it was stuck I have zero issues in 1 - 3, 6 doesnt grid but has the same issue as 5th and 4th doesnt slip
So if the pressure plate is going bad... It's possible that you've got some debris caught that is dragging the clutch "engaged" to cause the gear grinding, and also interfering with complete engagement to cause gear slippage. Kind of an outside chance of this being the case, but it's possible.

As for why some gears are affected, and others are not... 4th gear is a direct drive gear, so the engine and transmission are rotating at the same speed. In 5th and 6th, the engine turns slower than the transmission. Long and short of it is that it takes a lot less effort by the engine to put out more power than the transmission can keep up with, allowing slippage.

The grinding in 4th and 5th... not sure... could be related to vehicle speed, where the transmission isn't moving fast enough to grind in 1-3, and in 6th it is moving too fast to grind. Try a 2-4 shift and see if it grinds into 4th, same with a 3-5 or 2-5 shift. See if it grinds if you do a 3-6 shift.

I'll give you an anecdote from my own experience: I've got a pretty badly galled input shaft on my explorer. for some reason, it catches the pilot bearing for first and second gears, but not any of the other gears
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Otherwise, wanting to believe that the *very expensive* new part you just installed isn't defective... that doesn't make you a douche. just stubborn. 10 years ago, I would not suspect a part to have been bad out of the box, but anymore after I've gotten several BotB parts, it's top of the list of things to suspect. Especially since brief searches on this brand yield widely mixed reviews on the consistency of their products. Reviews range from failure before break-in all the way up to 100K happy miles.
Oh I agree its the reason I've fell out of the tech field I'm to smart for the work they want me to do and everything is about money anymore and thus made as cheap as possible
Everything I own beyond my tablet which is a piece of crap is pre 2005, my tablet and my crz are the two newest machines mechanical or otherwise I own post 2008, I'm only 28 by the way as Im sure that sounded like a "old man" but my point is I am very well aware most stuff made today is crap
However, I wouldn't say I'm stubborn as much as it doesn't make much sense for issues related to a defective part to just show up 7+ months later randomly without any warning of any kind, that's why I have serious doubts it has anything to do with the clutch
The reason I said I don't mean to be a douche is I feel like Im being dismissive, but I've already looked into everything said that is the reason I'm posting here, but I really do appreciate the fact people are taking time out of their day to help me

So if the pressure plate is going bad... It's possible that you've got some debris caught that is dragging the clutch "engaged" to cause the gear grinding, and also interfering with complete engagement to cause gear slippage. Kind of an outside chance of this being the case, but it's possible.
I don't see how the pressure plate could be bad for the same issues I said above but I am worried that that's the case none the less I have zero idea
The grinding in 4th and 5th... not sure... could be related to vehicle speed, where the transmission isn't moving fast enough to grind in 1-3, and in 6th it is moving too fast to grind. Try a 2-4 shift and see if it grinds into 4th, same with a 3-5 or 2-5 shift. See if it grinds if you do a 3-6 shift.
4th is barely noticeable, I only notice it because I have good ears and very attune to my car but it IS grinding but a better way to put it is it acts like its VERY worn, it barely grinds
2 grinds VERY rarely and only in high rpm but this has happened for almost the whole time I've owned the car and maybe 3 times only in high rpm and might be my error but my point in bringing that up is 4th grinds every now and then but is not dependent on rpm and I often shift to where I need to be rather than in numerical order so I would say it does grind 2 to 4, 5th only grinds at high rpm and is the ONLY gear that grinds BAD and acts like it doesn't wanna go in gear
So a 3 to 5 and 2 to 5 would only grind in high rpm, 3 to 6 doesn't grind and has never

The very bad thing is I have a feeling the more I think about it this is unrelated to the clutch issue and due to low transmission fluid as I said in my original post I don't think we filled it up correctly
 

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Discussion Starter #9
As for why some gears are affected, and others are not... 4th gear is a direct drive gear, so the engine and transmission are rotating at the same speed. In 5th and 6th, the engine turns slower than the transmission. Long and short of it is that it takes a lot less effort by the engine to put out more power than the transmission can keep up with, allowing slippage.
The thing I don't understand is it just popped up randomly with zero warning with zero cause after having the car on jacks, prior to the car being on jacks the clutch did not slip at ALL under any circumstances
This is my main issue, however, I added all the other stuff as background in case they could be related, if they are not I know the cause of why the grinding is happening and I feel like an idiot for it :\
This is also why I'm adding this in a separate post the issue I need help with is why the clutch could or would slip after being on jacks, that is the only issue without any apparent cause and makes zero sense to me
 

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To diagnose a clutch/pressure plate issue, my first suggestion is to inspect the clutch and pressure plate. I realize pulling the transmission out isn't exactly a desirable job, but it's exactly what you need to do. We can speculate all we want online, but being able to have a poke around first hand is your best method to resolution.
 

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The reason I said I don't mean to be a douche is I feel like Im being dismissive, but I've already looked into everything said that is the reason I'm posting here, but I really do appreciate the fact people are taking time out of their day to help me
2 grinds VERY rarely and only in high rpm but this has happened for almost the whole time I've owned the car and maybe 3 times only in high rpm and might be my error but my point in bringing that up is 4th grinds every now and then but is not dependent on rpm and I often shift to where I need to be rather than in numerical order so I would say it does grind 2 to 4, 5th only grinds at high rpm and is the ONLY gear that grinds BAD and acts like it doesn't wanna go in gear
So a 3 to 5 and 2 to 5 would only grind in high rpm, 3 to 6 doesn't grind and has never

The very bad thing is I have a feeling the more I think about it this is unrelated to the clutch issue and due to low transmission fluid as I said in my original post I don't think we filled it up correctly
So the fact that 2nd gear grinds in high RPM points to it being a vehicle speed-related issue. This would be an input shaft speed-related issue.

Still doesn't narrow it down to clutch rotating assembly or transmission. Top off the trans fluid, bleed the clutch, see what happens.

This post has lost it's photos either to the photobucket disaster or my office Imgur block, but it's got good instructions for how to change your fluid.
http://www.crzforum.com/forum/do-yourself-articles/67905-diy-6spd-transmission-oil-change.html

The thing I don't understand is it just popped up randomly with zero warning with zero cause after having the car on jacks
Sudden mechanical failure coincidental with, but not caused by, the car being on jacks. Only thing that makes sense to me, unless you are so bad at putting a car on jacks that you should never be putting a car on jacks. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To diagnose a clutch/pressure plate issue, my first suggestion is to inspect the clutch and pressure plate. I realize pulling the transmission out isn't exactly a desirable job, but it's exactly what you need to do. We can speculate all we want online, but being able to have a poke around first hand is your best method to resolution.
I agree 100 percent the issue is I dont have tools to do this or the money for someone else to do it, so Im hoping to have some good ideas to troubleshoot and only dropping the tranny if I absolutely must
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So the fact that 2nd gear grinds in high RPM points to it being a vehicle speed-related issue. This would be an input shaft speed-related issue.

Still doesn't narrow it down to clutch rotating assembly or transmission. Top off the trans fluid, bleed the clutch, see what happens.

This post has lost it's photos either to the photobucket disaster or my office Imgur block, but it's got good instructions for how to change your fluid.
http://www.crzforum.com/forum/do-yourself-articles/67905-diy-6spd-transmission-oil-change.html


Sudden mechanical failure coincidental with, but not caused by, the car being on jacks. Only thing that makes sense to me, unless you are so bad at putting a car on jacks that you should never be putting a car on jacks. :p
Could that be an issue is so any signs while driving? Could that also be caused by low transmission fluid?
I saw that as a reason oil can get on the clutch when I was doing research but I have low miles so I dismissed it
Should be noted I have had issues with 2nd gear since I bought the car but like I said it was rare, but I only started grinding 5th a few months ago so it shouldnt be the clutch(both only grind at high rpms)

My hope is flushing the transmission and replacing the clutch fluid as well as spraying brake cleaner on the clutch will fix everything, in theory, it should but I realize this is wishful thinking and why I asked here to get other ideas, I dont have the money to pay someone for transmission work but will have to regardless if I cannot fix it myself which makes me mad

Thats the diy I planned on using :p and how I came to the conclusion that my cousin filled the transmission through the drain hole
I can see the pictures just fine btw

Honestly, that is the best I got as well, I cannot see how it has to do with jacks but it was fine before and not fine after but it just doesnt make any sense to have anything to do with jacking the car I just dont see how a new clutch could suddenly fail without warning
I used the bar in the middle where the control arms are(not on the control arms but the bar they are connected to going across) and the jack points(said to use in the jack diy here) to jack the car up to put the jacks on it
 

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One word Warranty, if the miles are as low as you say. If it has had problems since birth there maybe a undocumented hidden extension to the warranty for that issue.



Could that be an issue is so any signs while driving? Could that also be caused by low transmission fluid?
I saw that as a reason oil can get on the clutch when I was doing research but I have low miles so I dismissed it
Should be noted I have had issues with 2nd gear since I bought the car but like I said it was rare, but I only started grinding 5th a few months ago so it shouldnt be the clutch(both only grind at high rpms)

My hope is flushing the transmission and replacing the clutch fluid as well as spraying brake cleaner on the clutch will fix everything, in theory, it should but I realize this is wishful thinking and why I asked here to get other ideas, I dont have the money to pay someone for transmission work but will have to regardless if I cannot fix it myself which makes me mad

Thats the diy I planned on using :p and how I came to the conclusion that my cousin filled the transmission through the drain hole
I can see the pictures just fine btw

Honestly, that is the best I got as well, I cannot see how it has to do with jacks but it was fine before and not fine after but it just doesnt make any sense to have anything to do with jacking the car I just dont see how a new clutch could suddenly fail without warning
I used the bar in the middle where the control arms are(not on the control arms but the bar they are connected to going across) and the jack points(said to use in the jack diy here) to jack the car up to put the jacks on it
 

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Discussion Starter #15
One word Warranty, if the miles are as low as you say. If it has had problems since birth there maybe a undocumented hidden extension to the warranty for that issue.
My warranty is expired and its a certified used car and I declined the extended warranty as most of the time they are a scam, recalls are free anything else i can either fix myself or fix cheaply by the mechanic I trust
I bought it from Honda certified used not new but it only had 12k on it and Ive put around 35k on it so it is a low mileage car just old
I have the 2013 ex

Right now I only have the option of taking it to honda as I far away from where I live and dont know anybody around here
 

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One word Warranty, if the miles are as low as you say. If it has had problems since birth there maybe a undocumented hidden extension to the warranty for that issue.
My warranty is expired and its a certified used car and I declined the extended warranty as most of the time they are a scam, recalls are free anything else i can either fix myself or fix cheaply by the mechanic I trust
I bought it from Honda certified used not new but it only had 12k on it and Ive put around 35k on it so it is a low mileage car just old
I have the 2013 ex
Certified Used warranty covers everything that the original factory warranty does up to 48000 total miles and adds 12 months to the expiration date of the original factory warranty. No scam there.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Certified Used warranty covers everything that the original factory warranty does up to 48000 total miles and adds 12 months to the expiration date of the original factory warranty. No scam there.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/not-just-the-scams-all-extended-auto-warranties-are-a-bad-deal/
I guess scam isnt really the right word as much as useless and not cost effective

And it wouldnt matter anyways I dont have it, I got it taken off for a lower price on the car as I wouldnt use it even if I had it
Certified used cars may "come" with an extended warranty but that doesnt mean you are not paying for it, they just added it to the cost of the car
https://www.autocheatsheet.com/car-dealer-scams/certified-used-car-scam.html
 

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Try bleeding your clutch master cylinder. Sometimes it fluid gets old and moisture will lessen the pressure, thus clutch will not disengage all the way
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Try bleeding your clutch master cylinder. Sometimes it fluid gets old and moisture will lessen the pressure, thus clutch will not disengage all the way
I had planned to, to see if that does anything






Update I bled the clutch fluid and it significantly changed the feel of shifting(closer to stock, more fluid and no grinding even in 5th at high rpm) it changed the clutch pedal(far less stiff and more fluid) and stopped the clutch from slipping quite a bit even though it still does slip, it only does so now when the battery is almost full - full in 5th and 6th when I stomp the peddle, however, the clutch does seem to grab more now I can feel it
Anyone know if a full fluid flush would be of any use or do you think clutch fluid could've got on my clutch from the slave cylinder or do you think my clutch is toast?

In case you need to know I know the clutch is slipping but it doesn't seem to be burning the clutch to much you can smell it if you really stick your nose in there but its not obvious outside of the car or like last time I burned it out you could smell it coming out of the wheel well
 
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