[kopacz2ti]

Hi everyone
Looking for adviser regarding engine swap.
My plan is to buy 'new' used engine, strip it down and upgrade few parts like rods and pistons.
AT the moment i'm running my car with HKS supercharger, but the performance is disappointing.
I found on facebook marketplace low milage, engine with transmission and IMA motor form CR-Z 2014, my only concern is that my car is from 2010 and as far I'm aware, 2010 use Nimh battery and the 2014 use lithium.
Does anybody know if this will cause any problem, or should I just try to find engine from 2010-2012 and save the hassle ?

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[ryanthegreat1]

The hardware is all the same under the hood other than an extra sensor on the CVT that the 10-12 didn't use.

Should be no issues using the 14 hardware with the 10-12 harness and computers.

You will still be the nickel battery and the matching computer for the IMA system.

 

[PeterPerkins]

Your new 2014 engine and transmission won't care about the IMA at the back.

However because you are swapping IMA motors you will need an HDS clone tool to do the IMA motor rotor sensor calibration routine once you have it installed.
This is the same for any year IMA motor you install/change/swap..

A clone HDS tool would be a very good buy for a project like this anyway, because when something doesn't work at least you will be able to diagnose it.

 

[Potato_Z]

It might be an idea to swap the block but keep the original IMA motor?

 

[PeterPerkins]

It might be an idea to swap the block but keep the original IMA motor?

You have to do the IMA re-calibration if you disturb the motor asfaik.

 

[96firephoenix]

It might be an idea to swap the block but keep the original IMA motor?

removing the IMA rotor from the housing is a somewhat dangerous task, if you don't have the proper tools.

 

[PeterPerkins]

Removing/transferring the IMA motor is doable without the £$£$ special tools with some basic precautions.

Yes the IMA motor rotor is a powerful magnet, but it's fury is mostly contained when left inside the stator.

So whilst the motor is all still attached to the engine pack the narrow gap between the rotor and stator with cereal box cardboard or thin plastic sleeveing.
Then you can release the centre rotor bolts and it will fix/hold itself with magnetic force against the inside of the stator.
The packing stops the stator/rotor damaging each other and keeps the rotor reasonably central.

Now you can unbolt the complete motor from the old engine and transfer the whole assembly onto the new engine.
Line it all up and bolt it back up then remove the packing once the rotor is bolted up.

Do not remove the rotor from the stator unless absolutely necessary or

1) It will pick up every piece of metal swarf in your workshop.
2) It might lose magnetism as the stator also acts as the magnetic keeper for the rotor.

Always keep the rotor/stator assembly in a clean bag between the transfer to avoid swarf pickup.
Don't get fingers between the naked rotor and things it is attracted too!


The IMA motor swap is not actually required or useful in this particular thread scenario..

 

[kopacz2ti]

Thank you guys for all the help, really appreciate
I do own HDS clone tool, so I'm not worry about that
Just as PeterPerkins said, removing IMA motor is pain in the ass and requires expensive tool, so I rather leave it alone

 

[PeterPerkins]

Just as PeterPerkins said, removing IMA motor is pain in the ass and requires expensive tool, so I rather leave it alone

I didn't say that.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

Not sure how old this post is but transmissions have different final drive ratios and said to affect regen. I have not confirmed this myself. Only found this out after buying a 2012 transmission to put into my 2013 that final drives were different and could possibly affect ima system. The after market finals do affect the ima but maybe its because its such a big jump. Maybe it wont care between the small difference 2011-2012 (4:11) to the 2013+(4.29?)

 

[96firephoenix]

Not sure how old this post is but transmissions have different final drive ratios and said to affect regen. I have not confirmed this myself. Only found this out after buying a 2012 transmission to put into my 2013 that final drives were different and could possibly affect ima system. The after market finals do affect the ima but maybe its because its such a big jump. Maybe it wont care between the small difference 2011-2012 (4:11) to the 2013+(4.29?)

if you have a suitable engine tuner you can correct the final drive in the tune and it will be ok.

You may see some slight struggle on the taller gear ratio just because the newer cars made a little more power, and the gearing was adjusted accordingly.

newer trans in older car would make some struggling.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

I just got k tuner for tuning my ge8 cam and intake then turning off cat and egr, and shortly turbo. I didnt see anything in final drive ratio adjustment.
Will say k tuner software actually kind of difficult.
Even the vtec engagement setting with 2 variabnles for high and low. Not used to that. Usually any other ecu its just on/off at a set rpm. Rev limit is weird also with the 2 values.
But back to trans i wanted to do the longer zf1 4:11 in the zf2 because zf2 made more power from the ima and with plans of turbo the longer final would help make gears longer and the little bit of extra load helps make boost. Also my 62 mile commute to work each way is all highway at 80 mph.
If k tuner will do the ratio difference id gladly put the 2011-2012 trans in because its a lot better shape than the 13 one i got.

 

[Spdbump]

if you have a suitable engine tuner you can correct the final drive in the tune and it will be ok.

You may see some slight struggle on the taller gear ratio just because the newer cars made a little more power, and the gearing was adjusted accordingly.

newer trans in older car would make some struggling.

Excuse my ignorance but how does a tuner change Physical gear ratios or final drive ratio? All of that is physical gears if not a CVT.

There have been a number of posts over the years that proved changing the final drive disables the renerative braking providing energy to the IMA and other issues.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

@Spdbump in the software if its available it would allow to scale the finsl drive. So it would correct the mismatch electronically. The ecu is reading speed sensor on the differential carrier. Correcting the mismatch would send the correct vss speed to the mcm or calculated through ecu and sent to mcm via f can or imacan. A corrected speed would allow regen to work with a changed final drive.
Not much aplies to the cvt even though there is a pinion and ring gear to give its final drive ratio.
But that does bring up an interesting thought if the cvt ecu or mcm takes any of that into consideration.

What the other user did when he did his final drive swap was just cross multiplication of a ratio. Stock 4.11 / number of teeth on vss trigger wheel (say 60t?) = new final drive number 4.9 m factory? / "x" new number of teeth on trigger wheel. That would be your corrected percentage or number of teeth.
Thats mechanical way of doing it. If its available in software then entering final ratio would fix it electronically.

 

[Spdbump]

Mentioned the CVT as it does not have real ratios, it is continuously adjustable with some fixed in SW ratios for the paddle shifting. Tuners are very expensive and need a lot of knowledge to use properly. My concern would be even if it is possible to "change" the final ratio in software would it be safe, and would it actually do what you say it does? Others have ended up with odd ratios for final drive when they installed Limited slip differentials, and I am not sure if they were able to fix the issues with the ratio not being what the car expects for the regeneration and other things to work properly.

@Spdbump in the software if its available it would allow to scale the finsl drive. So it would correct the mismatch electronically. The ecu is reading speed sensor on the differential carrier. Correcting the mismatch would send the correct vss speed to the mcm or calculated through ecu and sent to mcm via f can or imacan. A corrected speed would allow regen to work with a changed final drive.
Not much aplies to the cvt even though there is a pinion and ring gear to give its final drive ratio.
But that does bring up an interesting thought if the cvt ecu or mcm takes any of that into consideration.

What the other user did when he did his final drive swap was just cross multiplication of a ratio. Stock 4.11 / number of teeth on vss trigger wheel (say 60t?) = new final drive number 4.9 m factory? / "x" new number of teeth on trigger wheel. That would be your corrected percentage or number of teeth.
Thats mechanical way of doing it. If its available in software then entering final ratio would fix it electronically.

 

[96firephoenix]

Mentioned the CVT as it does not have real ratios, it is continuously adjustable with some fixed in SW ratios for the paddle shifting. Tuners are very expensive and need a lot of knowledge to use properly. My concern would be even if it is possible to "change" the final ratio in software would it be safe, and would it actually do what you say it does? Others have ended up with odd ratios for final drive when they installed Limited slip differentials, and I am not sure if they were able to fix the issues with the ratio not being what the car expects for the regeneration and other things to work properly.

The CVT does still have a final drive gear, but the ratio was the same across all years of CVT.

As @Slociviccoupe mentioned, the only "correcting" you can do with the tune is to tell the various engine computers to be expecting the ratio that is actually in the car. As far as the IMA regen issues, that has only been on the really aggressive final drive gears. With the 2011-12 gear ratio, it's less aggressive than the 13-16, so it most likely won't cause issues. Obviously not a guarantee, but most likely as long as you can get the car to expect the less aggressive gears, you won't have the car looking for something that's not there.

Another issue with the taller gears that was resolved with a custom tone ring was that the taller gears force the transmission to spin faster than the computer can process with the stock tone ring.

 

[Slociviccoupe]

Do we know the ratio of the cvt final? Also since the cvt cars have the ability to paddle shift the ecu does know the position of the drums in the trans so it does have some form of knowledge of what ratio it is in at a given time. It is interesting how a cvt car can regen though.

 

[96firephoenix]

Do we know the ratio of the cvt final? Also since the cvt cars have the ability to paddle shift the ecu does know the position of the drums in the trans so it does have some form of knowledge of what ratio it is in at a given time. It is interesting how a cvt car can regen though.

4.2 according to this post... but then a couple lines later says the JDM one has an even taller final drive?

Gear Ratios (CVT)

With the CVT the paddle shifters let you kind of take over and shift when you want. The question is: In each of the three modes (Eco, Normal, Sport) what ratios do you get when using the paddles? TIA

www.crzforum.com