Navi display dims when braking - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Navi display dims when braking

Just got some LEDs installed, and I upgraded the side marker / turn signal lights with XP80 (510 lumens) on all four corners with resistor kit for each as well. I notice a quirky thing happening with the Navi display while driving in the day time with all lights off--Navi screen goes to dim mode as you apply the brakes. Usually you can see the display change color/brightness during the day as you pass through areas of bright sunlight, then back to bright upon entering a shady patch of the road.

Has anyone noticed the same thing after installing resistors and/or side marker LEDs? I've also upgraded the tail lights with HP3 (56 lumens) and fog lights, but didn't notice the problem after installing those, so I'm thinking it has something to do with the side marker / turn signal / resistors (60 Ohms, if I remember correctly.)

Anyone from @Diode Dynamics have any thoughts on this?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 10:35 PM
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Are your marker lights coming on with your brakes?

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bzrollin View Post
Are your marker lights coming on with your brakes?
Good question, but no, I just went out to double check that one. All lights are working correctly; tail light LEDs, extra side/rear marker LEDs, all four parking/turn indicator LEDs, Fog light LEDs, -- all recently installed--brake lights, still OEM, working just fine too. But the curious thing, is when I was checking on the problem again, at dusk this evening, the Navi dim/bright display worked correctly, with NO brake interference at all, and as I pulled into the garage, the display changed to the "night time" display. What it was actually doing yesterday, was keeping the "daytime" type of display, but dimming it when I depressed the brakes (not going to the "night time" change of color display.) I've never seen that happen before, and I haven't been able to get it to do it again (as with when I had time to test it out and see what the problem was.) So, for now, I don't know what caused it, so I can't do anything to fix it, since it only did it that one time, and not yet again. That one time, was actually over and over again as I pressed the brakes going down the road; repeated the brake pedal test all the way home, and it wasn't just a coincidence. Hmmmmm....now I can't make it do it on purpose!

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litz View Post
Has anyone noticed the same thing after installing resistors and/or side marker LEDs?
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Originally Posted by litz View Post
All lights are working correctly... extra side/rear marker LEDs
When you say extra side and rear marker lights do you mean you added more? Because I noticed a distinct dimming of lights when adding other lights to the same circuit so I put them on their own separate circuit with a relay tied to the lights I wanted them to come on with. That way they get their own power but activate with the lights I wanted to 'add' them to so they don't dim the other lights or reduce the output of the added lights.

The electrical system is very picky on cars, there's only so much power allocated to each circuit (and so much power available total) so drawing even a small amount more than its designed for can cause dimming of other lights and reduced output. 1 additional amp, even lower on some circuits at 12V can cause problems. Separate circuits with relays can solve most of the issues up to a certain current draw threshold, its more work but its the solution to overdrawing a circuit that you want to trigger from.

Not sure if this is your problem but depending on the current draw of upgraded lights and or how additional lights are wired-in it can cause this issue.

Might not be overdrawing per the specs so perhaps you got a bad bulb or resistor.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koala Yummies View Post
When you say extra side and rear marker lights do you mean you added more? Because I noticed a distinct dimming of lights when adding other lights to the same circuit so I put them on their own separate circuit with a relay tied to the lights I wanted them to come on with. That way they get their own power but activate with the lights I wanted to 'add' them to so they don't dim the other lights or reduce the output of the added lights.

The electrical system is very picky on cars, there's only so much power allocated to each circuit (and so much power available total) so drawing even a small amount more than its designed for can cause dimming of other lights and reduced output. 1 additional amp, even lower on some circuits at 12V can cause problems. Separate circuits with relays can solve most of the issues up to a certain current draw threshold, its more work but its the solution to overdrawing a circuit that you want to trigger from.

Not sure if this is your problem but depending on the current draw of upgraded lights and or how additional lights are wired-in it can cause this issue.

Might not be overdrawing per the specs so perhaps you got a bad bulb or resistor.
Thanks for the input, Koala. Here's a link to the first set of LED's I installed recently: http://www.crzforum.com/forum/cr-z-b...ml#post1142345 I connected the wires for the extra side marker lights directly to the existing side marker wires. I didn't notice if the additional lights were dimming the OEM marker lights, because at the same time, I put brighter LED's in those as well. I also added the diffuser lights about a year ago, tapping directly into the right side tail/brake light wiring, and they've been okay too (except for a few burn out LED's that had to be replaced recently--replaced the left side diffuser light assembly.)

I've been aware of the finicky nature of the CRZ's electrical system, so I've been researching what others have done, and going with Diode Dynamics' installation suggestions as well. Whatever the problem is with the Navi display lights, it hasn't repeated the problem since it was doing it consistently on that one particular day. I'll let you know if the problem returns, but for now, all interior and exterior lights are operating as expected, with no problems.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Update: With further testing, I've found that the problem does NOT occur while the parking lights are ON, but does occur with headlights ON or all lights OFF. Also, The dimming does NOT occur within the first minute or so after starting up the car, but thereafter, it is consistently dimming as I apply the brakes if I don't have the parking lights on. Since I only noticed this problem after installing the turn signal LEDs (which include the parking--or side marker--lights,) with the resistor kit, something with that set up is causing the problem. If anyone has installed the turn signal LEDs from Diode Dynamics, can you check if your car shows the same symptoms? I only notice the problem with the Navi screen, so I doubt you'd notice anything goofy if you don't have Navi. Check out the video:


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 08:42 AM

 
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When you said dimming, I thought it was drawing too much power and reducing LCD brightness. That is just switching to night mode, which it should do when you turn the lights on. Odd that it only happens when you press the brakes. Seems like a wiring issue to me. I'll check my service manual and see if I can get any insight into it.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 08:57 AM

 
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Can you get into diagnostic mode? Service manual has this to say if the illumination day/night mode isn't working properly:

Quote:
Go into the System Diagnostic Mode, and use the Car Status test (see page 23-192) to check for an ILL signal.

Is the ILL signal OK?

YES-Replace the audio-navigation unit (see page 23-232).B

NO-Check the ILLUMI+ circuit between the audio-navigation unit and the No. B29 (10 A) fuse in the under-dash fuse/relay box.


To enter System Diagnostic Mode: hold the three buttons (MAP/GUIDE, MENU, and CANCEL), for about 3 seconds. The display screen goes directly to the Select Diagnosis Items menu shown.

• Detail Information & Setting (allows you to manually diagnose the navigation system)

Touch Car Status

Car Status

Use this screen to confirm that the audio-navigation unit is properly receiving input signals. Signals equal to (0) are OFF, and signals equal to (1) are ON. If the value on the display does not match the actual vehicle status, then check the wire carrying the signal.

• VSP-Vehicle Speed Pulse from the ECM/PCM (audio-navigationunitconnectorA(24P)terminal No. 23)
a) OFF (0) when vehicle is not moving
b) ON (1) when vehicle is moving

The VSP comes from the ECM/PCM as a dedicated signal. Internally, the audio-navigation unit compares the actual VP on the map against street data to adjust the pulse to speed scaling factor. As this scaling factor becomes more accurate, the Level gradually increases from 0 to 10.

• BACK-Reverse indication from taillight relay (audio-navigation unit connector C (8P) terminal No. 8) a) OFF (0) when the shift lever is in any position other than reverse

b) ON (1) when the shift lever is in reverse

The Back signal is used by the audio-navigation unit to allow the map screen to show the VP moving backwards when in reverse. This signal is needed because the Speed Pulse does not indicate direction.

• ILL-lllumination Indication (audio-navigation unit connector A (24P) terminal No. 4)
a) OFF (0) when parking lights, or headlights are off b) ON (1) when parking lights, or headlights are on

The navigation uses the signal to determine whether to put the navigation screen into the Day or Night brightness mode (Setup screen 1).
• ILLCANCEL

This item detects whether the illumination cancel function is in use.
a) OFF (0) when the dashlights brightness control button is less than 90 % brightness with the headlights turned on.

b) ON (1) when the dashlights brightness control button is more than 90 % brightness with the headlights turned on.

--------

I would use that screen to test what is happening with the illumination signal when you try all the variations posted in your video.


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimaera View Post
When you said dimming, I thought it was drawing too much power and reducing LCD brightness. That is just switching to night mode, which it should do when you turn the lights on. Odd that it only happens when you press the brakes. Seems like a wiring issue to me. I'll check my service manual and see if I can get any insight into it.
Sorry about interchanging "dimming" with "night mode," but the night mode actually works properly (at night,) but the only issue is when I press the brakes while in day mode. I did the diagnostics as you described, which leads me to think I should remove the four resistors to test again, then put the OEM bulbs back in, and retest because that's the only wiring difference (adding LEDs with resistors.)

During my initial test, I found some interesting things, but MUST test again, once I revert back to OEM turn signal/parking light set up, which I'll have to get back to next week as I'm supposed to be getting ready for the Dragon meet:
With my 2013 EX with Navi, the diagnostic mode is activated while pressing MapGuide/Destination/Cancel for 3 seconds.
There was no "ILL" to select from, but there was "VSP" and "BACK":

VSP = 1
*****a) while pressing brakes
*****b) if any lights are turned on

BACK = 1 (whether in Park or Reverse)
*****a) with parking lights ON
*****b) with headlights ON



F-Can ERROR ACTIVE


Thanks for the info, @chimaera, appreciate the feedback.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 01:01 AM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litz View Post
There was no "ILL" to select from, but there was "VSP" and "BACK":

So the right side of your photo that says ILL [0] and ILL CANCEL [0] isn't what the diagnostic points out?


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