Crystal Black Pearl finish - Wash and wax tips - Page 2 - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums
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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 06:04 PM
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I feel a "redneck" joke coming on here!
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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 11:24 PM
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I don't know about this step. Wet car + road grime, then dry off= scratches. I use a battery powered Black and Decker leaf blower instead.
I agree, driving your wet car is bound to result in some road dust and dirt get onto it and then you rub this into the paint as you dry.

I believe that much of the finish damage is done in the drying process. Make sure that your towels are spotlessly clean and that you apply only light pressure and try to dry in one direction to avoid swirls.

I am a fan of the flat stream of water to reduce the amount of beaded water on your freshly washed car.

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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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I think "taking her for a spin" is being taken out of context. I live in a townhouse, and after washing, I drive from one end of the lot, do a 180, and drive back. Unless you protect the car from all air-born contaminants by washing her in a clean garage (that's an oxymoron in most cases), the wind will put at least pollen on your car, even if it's stationary.

I've been refinishing cars for over 25 years, and I would advise against claying unless you're going to invest the 6-8 hours of re-washing, polishing, glazing and 2 coats of wax after claying. I wouldn't clay a car unless there were extreme amounts of crap stuck to the paint. And on a car as new as the CR-Z, claying should be a last resort. Now, a 1970's Buick that's never been washed or waxed...that's a different story
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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 03:26 PM
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I think "taking her for a spin" is being taken out of context. I live in a townhouse, and after washing, I drive from one end of the lot, do a 180, and drive back. Unless you protect the car from all air-born contaminants by washing her in a clean garage (that's an oxymoron in most cases), the wind will put at least pollen on your car, even if it's stationary.
Ok, I can see that. Parking lots are not as dirty as roads and your probably not going fast enough to kick up much dirt anyway. The leaf blower I use is called a "cordless broom". It is lightweight (10 LBS I think) generates 60 MPH wind force (I think) but definitely blows all the cracks out of water and takes about a minute and a half to walk around the car, if that, and works great on the grill that seams to collect and hold onto water.

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I've been refinishing cars for over 25 years, and I would advise against claying unless you're going to invest the 6-8 hours of re-washing, polishing, glazing and 2 coats of wax after claying. I wouldn't clay a car unless there were extreme amounts of crap stuck to the paint. And on a car as new as the CR-Z, claying should be a last resort. Now, a 1970's Buick that's never been washed or waxed...that's a different story
I have repaired, rebuilt and restored and won car show awards with my cars (there is a picture of it here on this forum) so that is neither here nor there. I really don't understand on why you would have to spend 6- 8 hours rewashing after claying.. WHY? Polishing is only needed for swirl marks or scratches embedded in the clear coat- and that does actually remove a a small layer of clear coat so that should be as limited as possible and why the two coats of wax? To me that is just extra labor, wasted money, and creates wax swirls marks and "smears" anytime anything brushes up against it. To me it is not necessary especially with whats out there today. In fact the stuff I use if you put to much on it actually dulls the finish. I agree clay barring does take off wax and everything else that it is supposed but leaves the paint clean and undamaged. I also agree it depends on where you live on the amount of times you need to clay. Where I live I have to do it four times a year. There has been threads started on this forum where those with white CR-Z's are getting "rust spots" from industrial fall out already. So going by "it's a new car so it shouldn't need it" is not a good measure. The best method is after washing the car thoroughly is put your hand in a plastic sandwich bag and lightly drag it across the paint. You will be able to tell by sound and feel if you need claying.

It seams clay baring has different opinions on what it does to clear coat. But professionals agree it doesn't remove clear coat or damage it if you use it properly. A great example they give is a clay bar wont remove scratches or swirl marks. That is because a clay bar is a non abrasive and will not take the clear coat down to remove them. That is what polish is used for which does take some of the clear coat off to remove such blemishes in the paint.

http://guidetodetailing.com/detailin...etailing-clay/
http://www.properautocare.com/Detail...amination.aspx

I am not trying to start an argument or fight, you might know something I don't, but from what I have done/ experienced it has been different.

Last edited by VTEC Mini; 07-18-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 03:37 PM
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My new red CRZ came with the swirls. I didn't see the car in the right light when I bought it. Of course, I had it back right away and they told me to see if they'd wax out after a few tries. I got the car in April and love it, so I did wax it twice and it shines like a million bucks until it is in direct sunlight or under florescent lights. Honda had it clayed at another dealership with a good paint/body shop last week and it did not help. I have to call Honda in a minute to see what is next. I heard a pro shop can get it done through a more detailed expensive process. I don't want it repainted and I will find out today if Honda is going to try to make it right. I wonder if all of this rubbing and buffing is taking some of the life out of my paint job.
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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 04:42 PM
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My new red CRZ came with the swirls. I didn't see the car in the right light when I bought it. Of course, I had it back right away and they told me to see if they'd wax out after a few tries. I got the car in April and love it, so I did wax it twice and it shines like a million bucks until it is in direct sunlight or under florescent lights. Honda had it clayed at another dealership with a good paint/body shop last week and it did not help. I have to call Honda in a minute to see what is next. I heard a pro shop can get it done through a more detailed expensive process. I don't want it repainted and I will find out today if Honda is going to try to make it right. I wonder if all of this rubbing and buffing is taking some of the life out of my paint job.
The reason clay barring did not work is because it is not meant to take out swirls or scratches because it is nonabrasive. It is only meant to remove contaminates. If you have scratches and swirl marks in the clear coat the only way to remove them is polishing. Polishing is a minor abrasive past that actually removes a little bit the clear coat and that's how it removes the swirl marks. If Swirl marks or scratches go below the clear coat then the only way to fix it is repainting.

If you have never polished a car before I would either recommend practicing on another car you really don't care about or take it to a professional. In either case, after your done, use only high quality items and don't let the dealer or funeral car wash wash your car.
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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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I really don't understand on why you would have to spend 6- 8 hours rewashing after claying.. WHY? Polishing is only needed for swirl marks or scratches embedded in the clear coat- and that does actually remove a a small layer of clear coat so that should be as limited as possible and why the two coats of wax?
My method may not be for everyone, but it goes like this: wash, dry, polish (when/if finish becomes dull or compromised), apply/wipe off glaze 2x's, 2 coats of wax. The 2 coats of glaze and wax are to ensure I don't miss any spots. I only intend to glaze twice a year, maximum.

I have seen pictures on this forum of finishes that have been compromised by swirls and chatters enough so that I would use polish to remove, just to get a clean slate. I'm not sure how these occurred. I don't think claying would help since claying merely lifts exterior contaminants off the finish; it doesn't remove scratches. Polish or rubbing compound would probably have to be used, depending on how bad the scratches are. To me, that's completely unnecessary for a new(er) car if it was properly cared for from day 1.

Claying, from my experience, is just abrasive enough to screw up the finish if too much pressure is applied. Even with my 2001 Honda Accord, I've never had to clay as long as I wash and wax frequently. To me, and this is my personal experience only, it's too easy to scratch the finish by using too much pressure. Today's paints seem to be much softer than the good 'ol days, so I've had to re-adjust my style and learn to wipe on/off polish, glaze and wax, not rub. That may explain your point about the rust showing on some CR-Z's already: if you rub too hard with claying (or rubbing compound, which you'd almost surely need to use on a white car, again, from my past experience), you'll take away the clear coat, and if you don't protect with wax, you'll get rust.

I completely understand the arguments for claying but find it personally too risky and unnecessary as long as I wash and wax frequently, every couple of weeks. Although this may seem excessive, and probably doesn't take 6-8 hours including the glazing, it's my alone time away from the screaming children and woman
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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 03:54 PM
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My method may not be for everyone, but it goes like this: wash, dry, polish (when/if finish becomes dull or compromised), apply/wipe off glaze 2x's, 2 coats of wax. The 2 coats of glaze and wax are to ensure I don't miss any spots. I only intend to glaze twice a year, maximum.

I have seen pictures on this forum of finishes that have been compromised by swirls and chatters enough so that I would use polish to remove, just to get a clean slate. I'm not sure how these occurred. I don't think claying would help since claying merely lifts exterior contaminants off the finish; it doesn't remove scratches. Polish or rubbing compound would probably have to be used, depending on how bad the scratches are. To me, that's completely unnecessary for a new(er) car if it was properly cared for from day 1.

Claying, from my experience, is just abrasive enough to screw up the finish if too much pressure is applied. Even with my 2001 Honda Accord, I've never had to clay as long as I wash and wax frequently. To me, and this is my personal experience only, it's too easy to scratch the finish by using too much pressure. Today's paints seem to be much softer than the good 'ol days, so I've had to re-adjust my style and learn to wipe on/off polish, glaze and wax, not rub. That may explain your point about the rust showing on some CR-Z's already: if you rub too hard with claying (or rubbing compound, which you'd almost surely need to use on a white car, again, from my past experience), you'll take away the clear coat, and if you don't protect with wax, you'll get rust.

I completely understand the arguments for claying but find it personally too risky and unnecessary as long as I wash and wax frequently, every couple of weeks. Although this may seem excessive, and probably doesn't take 6-8 hours including the glazing, it's my alone time away from the screaming children and woman
I agree with pretty much everything you just said except claying removing the clear coat. If that was the case ti could remove swirl marks too.

To clarify the white CR-Z's- these are cars that where never polished or clayed. these where straight factory finishes.

Your last line of your post was hilarious- I totaly understand that one!
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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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I agree with pretty much everything you just said except claying removing the clear coat. If that was the case ti could remove swirl marks too.
If you use too much pressure, then that could happen. That's all my point was.

The only white car I had was a 1981 Volkswagen Dasher. It seemed I had to use rubbing compound every other time I washed & waxed...I swore I'd never do a white car again. A lot of that was tough miles though, lots of city driving in Filthadelphia, PA where I went to college.

Back in those days, the wax was slightly less hard than concrete, and you had to really rub it on and wipe hard to get it off. So I was into the habit of rubbing, not wiping.

Nowadays, it's wipe, don't rub. I have to constantly remind myself of that. I'm a concerned I'm going to eff up my finish with clay. It's just something I have to get over. I've been avoiding it like the plague.

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Your last line of your post was hilarious- I totaly understand that one!
We're planning on moving soon, and I told the woman all I want is a 2 car garage
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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:56 AM
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We're planning on moving soon, and I told the woman all I want is a 2 car garage
When my wife and I where buying our house the only prerequisite I had to have was a double garage and RV parking. We could have lived in a pup tent for all I cared as long as it had the garage and RV parking.
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