Why CVT's are the BEST! - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums
 8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
CR-Z Forum Librarian
 
CR-Z Canadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,872
Why CVT's are the BEST!

Interesting explanation.



Note: he uses "torque" for both engine torque and wheel torque, which gets a bit confusing.
supercrz likes this.

Eco Stig
SOME SAY, that when he gets into his car, he plugs the IMA cable into his left ear … but no one can tell who is charging whom!
CR-Z Canadian is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 06:19 PM
Super Duper Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,257
Slushboxes are good cause you can eat a whole cheeseburger while driving from start to finish and never have to put it down to shift. That said I have a M/T so I park and eat.
Koala Yummies is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 06:19 PM
@ the speed of white
 
litz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Somerset, OH
Posts: 3,048
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR-Z Canadian View Post
Interesting explanation.



Note: he uses "torque" for both engine torque and wheel torque, which gets a bit confusing.
Dang, Canadian, I ran across that the other day and was going to post it here, but ooohhh, look at that, a @Defiant post.
CR-Z Canadian likes this.

2013 Honda CRZ EX PWP w/navi CVT | Litz's 2013 PWP Build Thread
Sprintex | Mugen | Takeda | Heko | DIY: CVT with 6-Speed shift boot
the speed of sound...the speed of light...the speed of love...the speed of white!
litz is online now  
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 08:42 PM
Super Duper Member
 
CRyoZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Ocean Springs, Mississippi
Posts: 1,921
Garage
I saw this the other day. Theoretically, it is the superior transmission on paper. However, in reality, it's just not quite there yet. Agree with ours being a "slushbox" and prone to slipping. It's also just not popular right now, because most performance minded enthusiasts are used to the lurches and precision that comes with a manual. I'm sure someday CVT will be king, but it's just not right now.

For another nail in the coffin, check out this video of two JRSC'd CR-Z's doing pulls. CVT looks like a clear winner.
CR-Z Canadian likes this.
CRyoZ is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 09:21 PM
@ the speed of white
 
litz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Somerset, OH
Posts: 3,048
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRyoZ View Post
I saw this the other day. Theoretically, it is the superior transmission on paper. However, in reality, it's just not quite there yet. Agree with ours being a "slushbox" and prone to slipping. It's also just not popular right now, because most performance minded enthusiasts are used to the lurches and precision that comes with a manual. I'm sure someday CVT will be king, but it's just not right now.

For another nail in the coffin, check out this video of two JRSC'd CR-Z's doing pulls. CVT looks like a clear winner.
Nice, but first gear rolling start made it look like the CVT actually "lurched" forward in acceleration. I wonder if that was just an optical illusion--that the 6-Speed had a "lurch" of lost momentum between shifts.

2013 Honda CRZ EX PWP w/navi CVT | Litz's 2013 PWP Build Thread
Sprintex | Mugen | Takeda | Heko | DIY: CVT with 6-Speed shift boot
the speed of sound...the speed of light...the speed of love...the speed of white!
litz is online now  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 11:28 AM
Super Duper Member
 
Aceryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,195
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRyoZ View Post
I saw this the other day. Theoretically, it is the superior transmission on paper. However, in reality, it's just not quite there yet. Agree with ours being a "slushbox" and prone to slipping. It's also just not popular right now, because most performance minded enthusiasts are used to the lurches and precision that comes with a manual. I'm sure someday CVT will be king, but it's just not right now.

For another nail in the coffin, check out this video of two JRSC'd CR-Z's doing pulls. CVT looks like a clear winner.
The comparison about 4th, 5th,6th gear rolling start on a manual just makes no sense.
The point of the cvt is to be in the optimal gear,so if you are rolling in 6th, it automaticaly changes you to the correct gear.

Ît's like saying you have a manual gear, but you aren't allowed to downshift? it's a pretty "dumb test" test.

In all track tests they made, on hot version. the 6MT, always is ahead of the CVT, even in Drag racing.

!!Let the fun begin!!Vuooooooom Pxxx xxxxx xxxx
2011 GT 200 HP Turbocharged @ 8Psi

Aceryl is online now  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:18 PM
Super Duper Member
 
Defiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: glorious Galt CA
Posts: 1,702
Garage
That was fascinating, right up until he started in with the values/divided by/time and numbers and stuff, when I'm pretty sure I saw a squirrel over there.

I'm really happy with the CVT, as much as I've always loved (and, humbly, have mastered) manual shifting.

I get a kick out of the Hatteras Yacht effect of mashing the throttle and feeling it just go voooooooooooooom instead of vrrrrrRRRRRRoooOOOOMMMMahhhhh of a regular automatic.

I'm also transfixed by the thoughts of what's going on inside there with those movable sheaves, and the thought that DAF came up with this type CVT back in the seventies. And I loved the mechanics of the Wilson pre-selector used in Auburn/Cord/Duesenberg cars 'back then. Then Audi started that dual-clutch thing. It's all just testament to the crafty mind of mankind, and the remarkable gizmos they come up with while trying to solve a problem. Of course, all this will be out the window when we have real electric cars with real electric motors, and peak torque starting at ZERO rpm.

But how many more of you daydream of exactly what the valves are going through while you drive down the road? Miracles.

I think I now know why the CVT feels faster when I let off the throttle a bit when accelerating. I think I'm finding the peak torque output. All part of being a savant.

Oh, and by the bye- nobody knows what the hell a torque is, your definitions be damned. Or, "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall. Torque is how far you moved it."
CR-Z Canadian and litz like this.
Defiant is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:35 PM
Super Duper Member
 
Aceryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,195
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant View Post

I think I now know why the CVT feels faster when I let off the throttle a bit when accelerating. I think I'm finding the peak torque output. All part of being a savant.
"

Curious that you mention this. I didn't try the CVT to compare, but i've always had the feeling that theZ, decelerates quicker than other cars i've owned....mostly old cars. Is it the regenerative breaking?or is something else in play.

For instance, my old Camry/Corolla, cruises on a flat line at 50kmh and almost doesn't decelerate with throttle off.
While the Z, seems harder to Roll on a flat straight. They both weigh the same. Although the camry has 14" wheels and 165 tires (might that be it?)

!!Let the fun begin!!Vuooooooom Pxxx xxxxx xxxx
2011 GT 200 HP Turbocharged @ 8Psi

Aceryl is online now  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
CR-Z Forum Librarian
 
CR-Z Canadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,872
Of course, ITEM9 had already predicted this way back when we were starting out with the JRSC.

Biggest problem with the "test" video shown above is that our CVT control software is programmed with a bias for economy (and self-preservation), rather than absolute performance. Those are good things in the real world. But not for a drag race.
As long as you don't get into trouble with one of the various other computers in the CR-Z 6MT, you can pretty much do whatever you like with that tranny.
I strongly suspect that the TCM in our cars will stifle torque as it approaches some pre-determined limit, for fear of slipping. Slippage in a CVT is detrimental to the longevity of the transaxle.
The Eng. Explained video is a bit more "theoretical" (as most of his are), and he even says so. Try to put too much power down through ours, and I'm afraid you'll be picking up pieces of CVT all down the highway.
The really superior CVT would be a lot more robust than ours - and heavier, which is not what Honda wanted to do to our cars. It might not yet exist.

In the end, a showdown against a 3-pedal manual transmission car relies on the ability of the driver, too.
Makes the one-on-one video fun, but the outcome is somewhat inconclusive.

No question that it will be an uphill battle trying to sell CVT's to supercar buyers.
It is hard enough to convince purists that an F1-style dual clutch is better than a manual. "Better" at going truly fast, that is!
The one thing that WON'T matter is the CVT whine that most automotive scribes whine about. You'll never hear that over the engine in a 12 cylinder Lamborghini!

Eco Stig
SOME SAY, that when he gets into his car, he plugs the IMA cable into his left ear … but no one can tell who is charging whom!
CR-Z Canadian is online now  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
CR-Z Forum Librarian
 
CR-Z Canadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceryl View Post
Curious that you mention this. I didn't try the CVT to compare, but i've always had the feeling that theZ, decelerates quicker than other cars i've owned....mostly old cars. Is it the regenerative breaking?or is something else in play.

For instance, my old Camry/Corolla, cruises on a flat line at 50kmh and almost doesn't decelerate with throttle off.
While the Z, seems harder to Roll on a flat straight. They both weigh the same. Although the camry has 14" wheels and 165 tires (might that be it?)
In gear (MT) or all the time (CVT), the car decelerates faster due to regenerative braking.
In the MT, if you coast with the clutch pedal engaged (or with the car out of gear), it should (AFAIK) roll the same as any other MT car and better than any normal (non-hybrid) automatic.

If it does not, you need your callipers serviced!

Eco Stig
SOME SAY, that when he gets into his car, he plugs the IMA cable into his left ear … but no one can tell who is charging whom!
CR-Z Canadian is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome