Honda shooting themselves in the foot?

[bizzybear]

I think so

See the failure of Honda that i see, is that they are killing their own hybrids with regular gas engine cars... with the 40c/43h Insight2 and the CR-Z's 35c/39h... i'm not sure sales of those hugely underpowered (on paper) vehicles will be able to sell well given the 2012 Civic will be probably cheaper and a better value overall... my '09 Civic LX easily gets over 40mpg hwy driving around 70mph... and it's only rated at 36hwy @ like 55mph...

I had to hold off on buying a CR-Z b/c of issues with my license mostly and the fact that i would literally have to pay cash b/c my credit isn't great lol... but now that I'm waiting and seeing what Honda is coming out with now, the Civic for me seems to be the better value... i owned an '06 Si and loved the car so much that i had issues with my license haha... but after driving in an '09 LX sedan for a while, i realized that i don't need speed so much anymore, which is why i found the "hybrid" side a bit more appealing and i still do... but with the recent release of info about the 2012 Civic claiming 40mpg hwy for the regular Civic, that makes me wonder what the Hybrid will get... my guess would be around, if not, higher than the 50mpg hwy mark and probably over 40mpg city... so real world combined of close to 50mpg... that sounds way more appealing to me than what the CR-Z offers... now the HCH3 won't be sporty feeling... but that's nothing some aftermarket suspension tweaking can't fix...

point is, i don't see the value in the smaller Insight2 or CR-Z when the HCH will no doubt have much higher numbers in a larger car and a better build quality feel... sure the HCH3 will cost a bit more and some people will go for those other cars b/c of that, but i don't shop much by price...

to top it off my '06 Si was rated (when released) at 24c/32h with 2008 EPA those numbers dropped to 21c/29h... but mine easily got 32mpg on the highway and around 26-28 combined, beating the crap out of it, daily... the 2012 is supposed to be even more powerful and more fuel efficient that the previous gen... so my guess would put it around a conservative 26c/33h and will probably get closer to 36hwy and 29-30 combined real-world... price can't be much higher than the current gen, so figure around low $22k range starting... that's only about $1500-2K more than the EX CR-Z... and the value for $2k is DEFINITELY there...

with such a great option with the overall Civic package, why not create other Honda's that offer better overall value than the Civic?? it seems the lineup is like this:
(from lowest to highest)
Civic
Accord
Crosstour
then the rest of the SUVs

so to me, everything below the Civic is so entry level, that it's not really worth considering...


/rant

[wicked1]

The civic is designed to be their best value, most generally appealing vehicle. If they can fill that market better than the other manufacturers it won't kill honda... it will carry them.

Is the civic's engine more powerful and more efficient than the cr-z? If so, why'd they use the engine they did in the cr-z?

[Scotty001]

Dang Bizzy...

Now regretting trading in my 07 Civic loaded hybrid with Navi and HFP package and 18" rims since everything else is entry level including the CR-Z.

Not!!

But then again, as I trade em in every 4 or 5 years, can't wait to see what comes later.

[bizzybear]

i didn't mean they were hurting themselves with the new Civic... the Civic will sell no matter what... and this new one will be an even bigger hit than the last one... i was referring to the cars considered under the Civic...

one thing that has been a bit of a gripe was why didn't Honda put the R18 (Civic motor) into the CR-Z then add the IMA?? that motor is more powerful and more fuel efficient than the current setup... and since the CR-Z is lighter, they could adjust the gearing to make it even more fuel efficient... i'm still lovin the CR-Z but with the new Civic coming out and the very little bit of info on it currently, i'm starting to be on shaky ground about considering getting a CR-Z...

they only thing keeping my interest in the CR-Z is the potential like what Bisimoto did... +500hp and still 40mpg... that's appealing...

[JnC]

Originally Posted by bizzybear

one thing that has been a bit of a gripe was why didn't Honda put the R18 (Civic motor) into the CR-Z then add the IMA?? that motor is more powerful and more fuel efficient than the current setup... and since the CR-Z is lighter, they could adjust the gearing to make it even more fuel efficient... i'm still lovin the CR-Z but with the new Civic coming out and the very little bit of info on it currently, i'm starting to be on shaky ground about considering getting a CR-Z...

I think that was answered here. Seems like a logical path for an Si model.

[bizzybear]

Originally Posted by JnC

I think that was answered here. Seems like a logical path for an Si model.

in my own thread nonetheless


i get it and all... but what i'm saying is there's no way Honda will come out with a more powerful, more fuel efficient CR-Z... which would be a perfect example of shooting themselves in the foot lol... now they HAVE to release a more powerful, but less FE CR-Z if they do a more powerful version when they could've easily released a more powerful and FE CR-Z from the beginning...

standard 1.8L 140hp + IMA 13hp = 153hp CR-Z... and since the 1.8L already gets 36hwy in the heavier Civic, they could've done this for sure...

[human668]

In America, Civic is a domestic model. CR-Z, Insight and Fit are built and imported from Japan. That can make Civic to have lower building cost advantage.
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Beside HP and MPG, there are some other factors to consider. CO2 and engine displacement. They may be ignored by USA market but they are important elsewhere.

[ian100]

I bought a CRZ and traded in my European Civic Type S GT. I don't regret it but if the new Civic had been the alternative I would have probably gone for this instead. When the new European Civic finally comes out I will probably go this route. Looking forward to seeing the European Civic too. No offence, but the current one is much better looking than the current US one.

[gomarlins3]

Personally I think Honda started to shoot itself in the foot with the demise of the NSX and sped up that downward spiral with the end of the S2000.

[GoHuskies]

I think the car we have is more of a stopgap to a better model.

Other companies have done the same, the GTO for the USA came with a weaker 5.7L engine then moved to a 6.0L.

I think the 1.5L IMA motor works well in taxation markets like Japan and Europe. In the US I bet we'll see the rumored turbo engine lineup come into play with a 1.6L turbo + IMA. Those of us who bought early got the short end of the stick.