2017 Honda Clarity FCV Review - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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2017 Honda Clarity FCV Review



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Smog greets visitors of Los Angeles as soon as they step off an airplane, much like Hawaiian guests are greeted with a lei. The beautiful mountains are blanketed by the foggy haze of pollution, a result of the many cars, trucks and other vehicles burning gasoline in traffic or on the move.

The solutions that are in place are easy to wrap your head around when viewed in the grand scope of things. By minimizing our reliance on fossil fuels, we can slowly restore the air quality and maybe get an unfiltered view of the horizon in places like Los Angeles.

Offering environmentally conscious consumers vehicles that use no gasoline is one way automakers are trying to help the situation. Electric vehicles have gained popularity with people who hate pumping gas and enjoy the silent thrill of electron propulsion. However, electric cars feature huge batteries, which are capable of being recharged anywhere thereís an electric outlet, but take a long time to reach their full capacity.

Another alternative fuel thatís seen as a potential savior of our blue skies is hydrogen. Cars fueled by hydrogen use quiet and clean electric motors to move around, but a hydrogen-powered vehicle is much quicker to refuel than recharging a battery. It can take just three to five minutes to refill a tank, and when you do, you get an EV-beating range of over 300 miles (482 km). Honda has been offering these hydrogen-fueled cars for over 10 years now, in very limited and niche markets, but is looking to expand the availability and appeal with a new vehicle called the Clarity FCV.
Read more about the 2017 Honda Clarity FCV Review at AutoGuide.com.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:25 PM
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....Another alternative fuel that’s seen as a potential savior of our blue skies is hydrogen......
NO, you stupid, clueless, blinkered, no-brained morons. Hydrogen is not a fuel. It is only a means of transferring energy, and at a loss. There is not enough free hydrogen around to power a gnat's fart, it must be separated from other sources, such as water. Which requires a not-insignificant amount of energy which is forever lost.

I hate the Press.

And nice 300-mile range, but where's my nearest pumps?

And egad, what happened to its hind legs?
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 07:06 AM
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Hmm...

I like the look, except the flattened top of the rear wheel wells, Other than that it's built for an even more limited market than our CR-Z...


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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:19 AM

 
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NO, you stupid, clueless, blinkered, no-brained morons. Hydrogen is not a fuel. It is only a means of transferring energy, and at a loss.
Gasoline is a means of transferring energy at a huge loss. It has to go through a hundred different channels so your engine powers your wheels to roll you down the road instead of exploding on contact and sending your charred remains to its final destination.

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There is not enough free hydrogen around to power a gnat's fart, it must be separated from other sources, such as water. Which requires a not-insignificant amount of energy which is forever lost.
You know what is forever lost? Fossil fuels. Once all the dinosaurs are burnt up, you'll be Fred Flinstoning it anywhere you want to go. If you can breathe, though, because another thing that's NOT lost forever is the emissions from billions of cars around the globe. Oh, and by the way, hydrogen is literally the most abundant element in the entire universe. There weren't enough dinosaurs around to pilot the whole planet indefinitely, but hydrogen sure as heck has a better shot.

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I hate the Press.

And nice 300-mile range, but where's my nearest pumps?

And egad, what happened to its hind legs?
The pumps are probably in the same place they were when horses were standard and some old guy in a village said "MODEL T?! T FOR TERRIBLE!! I CAN'T POWER IT WITH HAY AND WHIPS, THE AUTOMAJIGGER WILL NEVER WORK."

Your comical asides are usually funny and warranted. This was not one of those times.

Don't worry, you'll have a gas-powered car with a combustion engine until the day you leave this planet. Your grandkids, if you have any, might not be able to breathe, though. Probably worth it.


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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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Gasoline is a means of transferring energy at a huge loss. It has to go through a hundred different channels so your engine powers your wheels to roll you down the road instead of exploding on contact and sending your charred remains to its final destination.
And, current technology still makes us discard about 60% of its energy. Still, it's the easiest source of portable power we have yet developed.



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You know what is forever lost? Fossil fuels. Once all the dinosaurs are burnt up, you'll be Fred Flinstoning it anywhere you want to go. If you can breathe, though, because another thing that's NOT lost forever is the emissions from billions of cars around the globe.
I'm not so sure our hydrocarbon supplies are fossil-based. We have no idea how this planet runs itself.
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Oh, and by the way, hydrogen is literally the most abundant element in the entire universe. There weren't enough dinosaurs around to pilot the whole planet indefinitely, but hydrogen sure as heck has a better shot.
It's abundant, but it's bound. And to get it out where we can use it requires energy, which is not fully recovered by recombining it back to something like water.

Have your seen any of the shows about thorium?



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The pumps are probably in the same place they were when horses were standard and some old guy in a village said "MODEL T?! T FOR TERRIBLE!! I CAN'T POWER IT WITH HAY AND WHIPS, THE AUTOMAJIGGER WILL NEVER WORK."
They were right about that. And if you've ever tried driving a T, you'd realize the Terrible moniker is well-deserved. As for horses, well, we'll show you emissions.

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Your comical asides are usually funny and warranted. This was not one of those times.
I'm not sure we need to mention warrants.... But I just can't see hydrogen being viable (and no, the Hindenburg loss was not from hydrogen "dangers").
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Don't worry, you'll have a gas-powered car with a combustion engine until the day you leave this planet. Your grandkids, if you have any, might not be able to breathe, though. Probably worth it.
I'm not a parent. I've remained obscure. But I don't care what moves my car, so long as I have one I can move around with- and not one that's doing the driving for me.

The sad part is that it doesn't matter what we think, nor what we want. Whatever "The Machine" is, will do what it wants, and what "It" mostly wants is power and profit. It's terribly disheartening to realize we're a bit below ants, but here we are.

I've never seen a full equation for the hydrogen problem. Sure, it's a swell fuel, but they never go upstream from the nozzle and show how that supply was derived. It will remain an asterisk in the energy-quest paragraph.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:24 AM
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I like the look, except the flattened top of the rear wheel wells.....
That's for selling it to the French.... who would supply hydrogen from nuclear-generated power.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 02:21 PM
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At the current moment, enough *waste hydrogen* is produced as industrial byproduct from other industries (chlor-alkalai for one) to provide fuel for a fleet of tens of millions of FCVs.

Hydrogen is produced on an industrial scale, transported on an industrial scale, and stored on an industrial scale. The final part of the solution with FCVs is getting that hydrogen to a retail scale, and that retail infrastructure is just starting to grow.

Currently, the hydrogen sold for FCVs in California is legally required to be more than 33% renewable, and is actually closer to 45% renewably-sourced.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 04:35 PM
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Interesting, and stuff I'd not heard of. Wikipedia (which I am loathe to use as a source, but it's fast) includes, "The process has a high energy consumption, for example over 4 billion kWh per year in West Germany in 1985". I guess the plants have reason to not go ahead and use the hydrogen on-hand as part of an energy supply.

Interesting source, and I'm sure as dependable as the government sites telling us how good ethanol is as a vehicle energy source.

And thank god ol' California has found a way to write laws about what we can use and what we can make it out of. I hope it works out as well as the requirement that State Offices use recycled copy paper.

My complaint about the hydrogen idea is based on the situation that we haven't already developed it, and simply because gasoline is so easy in comparison. I don't buy the political and business tales about what's better, and certainly not the political "experts" trying to run our lives and economy. If they were serious about any of this, we'd not have camshafts in engines, nor the idea of a "power band" and seven-speed transmissions trying so hard to let us milk that band.

I think electric powered cars are going to be what rids us of gasoline engines. And I still don't anticipate seeing hydrogen for cars getting a toehold. Instead, use the hydrogen to generate electricity.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 05:29 PM

 
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I think electric powered cars are going to be what rids us of gasoline engines. And I still don't anticipate seeing hydrogen for cars getting a toehold. Instead, use the hydrogen to generate electricity.
I guess you haven't done much reading at all on the Clarity then. It does not have a hydrogen combustion engine. It uses hydrogen to replenish the fuel cell, which generates electricity, powering the all-electric powertrain. Instead of taking five hours to charge the batteries like a Tesla, it takes five minutes to fill the hydrogen storage tank. It's still very much an electric vehicle to rid us from Big Oil. The only emission is water.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 04:25 AM
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I guess you haven't done much reading at all on the Clarity then.
I've read the two blurbs they sent me when inviting me to come test-drive it, and crowing about how it doesn't pollute, much like the advertising plates they're putting on Teslas.
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It does not have a hydrogen combustion engine. It uses hydrogen to replenish the fuel cell, which generates electricity, powering the all-electric powertrain. Instead of taking five hours to charge the batteries like a Tesla, it takes five minutes to fill the hydrogen storage tank. It's still very much an electric vehicle to rid us from Big Oil. The only emission is water.
Is there much difference in burning hydrogen and creating heat to propel a car, and using it to make a battery for a motor? What are the energy loss comparisons, any idea?

A lot of the trouble with internal combustion engines, gasoline or diesel, is how much energy (at least 30%) is lost just in keeping the engine from melting. We were supposed to have ceramics giving us about half of that back, but the need hasn't become dire enough for anyone to make it, or other situational opportunities (such as the amount of energy wasted in braking for cars inferior to the CR-Z) work.

i apologize for whizzing anyone off about my take on the situation, as I truly didn't mean to. I'm not married to current engine technology, nor the existing fuel network. But what raises my hackles is these companies coming in and promising these paradigm changes and then not following through. It was supposed to be LNG not that long ago, or other refinery "waste" gasses, but apart from some of the utility companies and hugely-subsidized urban transit vehicles, it's yet another "Miracle Change" that hasn't happened, and I fear the same fate is in store for hydrogen. At least electric is trying to make a move (although I don't know if they've exceeded Baker's 1910 proportions), even if the majority of "electric hybrid" vehicles are essentially railroad engines with batteries- a generating station on board a battery sled.

And on batteries, there should be more usage of flywheels. But that's yet another thread.
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