hho on crz - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums

stephenj37826 · 08-25-2011, 10:15 PM

I know I know millions of threads but fact is i went from 52-53 on my commute to work to 61 this morning using just plain white vinegar. Switched to naoh and distilled water and production tripled. I just switched the electrolyte after dak took a quick 2 mile run down the road and netted 86 mpg. I also have a plug in kit but it still is pretty nice. I noticed on my scan gauge that the timing is only going to 20 now versus high 30s before. I believe that with this much hho gas the knock sensor is retarding the timing but i am running 87 octane. If i switch to 93 this should allow for full timimg again. HHO gas has an octane rating of 50. The gains come from more complete combustion of the gasoline not from the extra power of the hho. I've studied it and it seems that the flame front is faster moving causing a faster combustion and a small increase in torque. Wish there was a formula to calculate effective compression ratio like with adding boost.

Jakecrxsi · 08-25-2011, 10:20 PM

stephenj37826 · 08-26-2011, 06:19 AM

OK first look up hho. By adding in small quantities of hydrogen to a fuel mixture you basically increase the engines efficiency. Secondly look in aftermarket crowd I have a thread on my Enginer | Prius Plugin PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion | Hybrid plug in hybrid kit.

716atHeart · 08-26-2011, 08:34 AM

what is this i don't even

Neutron256 · 08-26-2011, 09:17 AM

Where are you getting the hydrogen from and how are you mixing it with the gas? Also are you a little worried about feeding a fuel into your engine that it wasn't designed for?

I'm sure there are all kinds of fuels I could feed into my engine to get better MPGs if I wasn't concerned about cost or the life of my engine.

northbridge · 08-26-2011, 09:34 AM

this is all over my head. the plug in kit was already a bit beyond the range of what I understand...

amazing that you are able to get MPG like this though for sure.

Ol'Man Driver · 08-26-2011, 12:13 PM

HHO - I know, the world is full of fools. But don't fool your CR-Z!

stephenj37826 · 08-26-2011, 08:29 PM

well from what I gather and what I can invision is as the air and small amount of hho enter the engine the fuel is added to the mix. As the spark is applied the hyrdrogen burns more quickly than the vaporized gasoline which in turn makes the flame front move quicker. Ever wonder why theres flames from a dragster. If you can get more of the fuel to burn while in the chamber during the power stroke you will of couse see more mpg. The thing I think people misunderstand is that in most cases if I drive it without paying attention to the instantanous mpg gauge then I dont really see more than a 2-3% gain. When I do pay attention I get a solid 15% gain. It seems to me that it makes it a whole lot easier to keep the car in that super high milage mode when you let off the gas then lightly give it throttle. Please also remeber that this vehicle doesn't have an alternator. I get my dc electricity to run the HHO cell indirectly from my plug in kit.

stephenj37826 · 08-26-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutron256

Where are you getting the hydrogen from and how are you mixing it with the gas? Also are you a little worried about feeding a fuel into your engine that it wasn't designed for?

I'm sure there are all kinds of fuels I could feed into my engine to get better MPGs if I wasn't concerned about cost or the life of my engine.

You get the hydrogen by cracking water with dc current called electrolysis. The idea here is to get just enough in the engine to make a more complete combustion but not so much as to degrade your timing because the octane rating of hydrogenis around 50. Our cars have a spot in the fuel map that is rather fuel effiecient. You can easily find it by letting off the accelerator and gently giving it just enough peddle that you feel a positive pull but the instantanous mpg gauge stays from75-100 mpg+. The amount of hho I see being best for our cars is less than 1 liter per minute. To sum it up think about this. Lets say your running 2500 rpm on the highway and are at 30% load. Well at 2500 rpm your engine is pumping it 1.5 liters x 2500 rpm / 2 or 3750 liters at wide open throttle at 100% volumetric effiecency. Now we are at 30% load so 30% of 3750 is 1175 liters per minute being moved through the engine. Now we are only putting in 1 liter per minute or less so the ratio is very low. A whole lot lower than at 50 hp shot of nitrous thats or sure lol. Point being the little added hho does help me to exploit the SHAM mode of the crz netting better milage. No free lunch here just using more of what ends up going out of the tailpipe.

Neutron256 · 08-27-2011, 12:11 AM

I started to write a long explanation of why this doesn't work but it just isn't worth it. If anyone is really interested Myth Busters did a great episode on this, and why it's complete and utter bunk.

From your description I suspect any fuel savings you're seeing is from paying more attention throttle control.

08-25-2011, 10:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
stephenj37826 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	hho on crz I know I know millions of threads but fact is i went from 52-53 on my commute to work to 61 this morning using just plain white vinegar. Switched to naoh and distilled water and production tripled. I just switched the electrolyte after dak took a quick 2 mile run down the road and netted 86 mpg. I also have a plug in kit but it still is pretty nice. I noticed on my scan gauge that the timing is only going to 20 now versus high 30s before. I believe that with this much hho gas the knock sensor is retarding the timing but i am running 87 octane. If i switch to 93 this should allow for full timimg again. HHO gas has an octane rating of 50. The gains come from more complete combustion of the gasoline not from the extra power of the hho. I've studied it and it seems that the flame front is faster moving causing a faster combustion and a small increase in torque. Wish there was a formula to calculate effective compression ratio like with adding boost.

08-26-2011, 12:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ol'Man Driver Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Good Old Europe, Austria Posts: 173	HHO - I know, the world is full of fools. But don't fool your CR-Z! __________________

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08-26-2011, 06:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
stephenj37826 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	OK first look up hho. By adding in small quantities of hydrogen to a fuel mixture you basically increase the engines efficiency. Secondly look in aftermarket crowd I have a thread on my Enginer \| Prius Plugin PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion \| Hybrid plug in hybrid kit.

08-26-2011, 08:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
716atHeart Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Queens, NYC Posts: 425	what is this i don't even

08-26-2011, 08:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
stephenj37826 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 58	well from what I gather and what I can invision is as the air and small amount of hho enter the engine the fuel is added to the mix. As the spark is applied the hyrdrogen burns more quickly than the vaporized gasoline which in turn makes the flame front move quicker. Ever wonder why theres flames from a dragster. If you can get more of the fuel to burn while in the chamber during the power stroke you will of couse see more mpg. The thing I think people misunderstand is that in most cases if I drive it without paying attention to the instantanous mpg gauge then I dont really see more than a 2-3% gain. When I do pay attention I get a solid 15% gain. It seems to me that it makes it a whole lot easier to keep the car in that super high milage mode when you let off the gas then lightly give it throttle. Please also remeber that this vehicle doesn't have an alternator. I get my dc electricity to run the HHO cell indirectly from my plug in kit.