Thoughts on sub-frame bracing / roll bars, anyone??

[kmanatt]

I've got about a week on the car now. My greatest complaint with the stock handling is that the back end has much more body roll than the front. Has anyone tried the rear aftermarket anti-roll bars? Does anyone have any comments about the sub-frame braces? Is there any perceptable improvement?

To my unrefined taste the front end feels pretty good and predictable in stock trim.

Thanks K

[northbridge]

i think the stock suspension is more to blame than the chassis for the body roll so im getting coilovers but if im not satisfied i plan to do bracing also. I dont think you will notice enough difference with braces to mitigate the issues youre having. I think zeropointzero is the only person here with bracing so far so we will have to wait for him to chime in.

[zeropointzero]

here are my mods so far:

installed: cusco lower front chasis braces V1 and V2. HKS Kansai rear hatch brace.




the only problem i noticed prior to installing these braces was a rear hatch popping/creaking noise during aggressive corning. the rear popping/creaking noise is now gone. i give credit to the HKS Kansai bar for that, but the cusco parts are not without merit. they stiffen the front lower subframe front and rear. the lower subframe is stamped steel so some extra stiffening is welcomed.

parts i have, but not installed are the cusco front and rear sway bars. i am waiting on the swift springs to arrive before i install the sway bars.

also on my agenda is a front upper strut/chassis brace and a rear lower chassis brace. the front sway bar end links also appear to be a weak link in our suspensions. i don't know how many of you have looked at these, but they are long and thin. not much strength there, IMHO. moonface has some end links that look promising.

i always work on getting the chassis as stiff as possible to allow the suspension to do the work. the suspension bushings will be another weakness until the aftermarket catches up.

just my thoughts, don't flame me.

[Scotty001]

Originally Posted by kmanatt

I've got about a week on the car now. My greatest complaint with the stock handling is that the back end has much more body roll than the front. Has anyone tried the rear aftermarket anti-roll bars? Does anyone have any comments about the sub-frame braces? Is there any perceptable improvement?

To my unrefined taste the front end feels pretty good and predictable in stock trim.

Thanks K

Good question.
At the risk of showing my ignorance - After lowering it an inch and putting 20MM DRM spacers on the rear for a 40MM wider stance (in the rear), it feels (subjectively) that I do not have as much roll in the back with a bit of understeer. Also seems to be an improvement...

I'm OK with someone telling me that's BS - in a civilized manner...

[northbridge]

Scotty the stiffer springs definately help with roll, no worries, your impressions are correct.

also zeropointzero, why a front sway. i know rear sways make a difference on front drive cars in eliminating understeer but doesnt a stiffer front mitigate the addition of the rear sway? I appreciate your other observations.

i plan to mod in reverse order than you. Once my suspension is on i'll stiffen it up.

[Shatner]

Originally Posted by northbridge

Scotty the stiffer springs definately help with roll, no worries, your impressions are correct.

also zeropointzero, why a front sway. i know rear sways make a difference on front drive cars in eliminating understeer but doesnt a stiffer front mitigate the addition of the rear sway? I appreciate your other observations.

i plan to mod in reverse order than you. Once my suspension is on i'll stiffen it up.

A stiffer front bar will ballance out a car with a stiffer rear bar. A stiffer rear bar alone can induce lift-throttle or snap oversteer. A front bar alone will add to understeer; something we don't need in this car.

Have you guys seen this rear brace? Looks fantastic.
Kansai Service Rear Chassis Brace CR-Z

[northbridge]

^ thanks. Now that you mention it, my last car with RSB only did do some interesting things if you lift off mid corner. They didnt even make a FSB for that car though.

I saw that HKS bar, looks great.

[zeropointzero]

here is a simple rule to live by when tuning with sway bars.

"stiffen the front, loosen the rear." "stiffen the rear, loosen the front." what that is saying is, if you put a bigger sway on the front, you will cause the rear to lose traction easily. ie: oversteer, drifting, pucker time. if you put a big sway bar on the rear, you will loosen the front. ie: understeer, push, plow, crap my tires are howling and nothing is happening but lift off the throttle and all is well.

most FWD cars understeer, because when you start to slide the first thing you do i lift off the throttle which allows you to re-gain control of your car.

^^these rules apply at normal speeds, tracks speeds vary based on conditions.... lol...

[zeropointzero]

Originally Posted by northbridge

Scotty the stiffer springs definately help with roll, no worries, your impressions are correct.

also zeropointzero, why a front sway. i know rear sways make a difference on front drive cars in eliminating understeer but doesnt a stiffer front mitigate the addition of the rear sway? I appreciate your other observations.

i plan to mod in reverse order than you. Once my suspension is on i'll stiffen it up.

i am hoping the cusco sways have been set up to balance each other. we will see once i get everything installed.

[zeropointzero]

Originally Posted by Shatner

A stiffer front bar will ballance out a car with a stiffer rear bar. A stiffer rear bar alone can induce lift-throttle or snap oversteer. A front bar alone will add to understeer; something we don't need in this car.

Have you guys seen this rear brace? Looks fantastic.
Kansai Service Rear Chassis Brace CR-Z

shatner, way ahead of you on the rear lower kansai brace. will update once it arrives.